Developing System X - or "Don't bring back Steck..."

[Rasputin]

I have a lot of reading to do in this tread but one thing did come to mind that many collectors usually do not take into account. This is the simple and frustrating part of patent laws. Geobra loves to maintain total and I can not stress the word TOTAL enough on its designs. Steck parts must have a design patent but it is typically good for 20 years. When did stecks hit the market? SystemX might have the same fate. Business wise you have to be carefull to produce a product that is easily and legally copied. I think we are in that area for stecks. Other companies could produce it but the market is too small to justify it for now. If Geobra was to heavily reproduce it then it may arouse the other greedy plastic companies to take notice. Its a fine line as Geobra allready owns the molds so they can produce it cheaper but you do not want to over produce it so others take notice. I think this is why we only see a few sets a year of classic sets.

You can see other examples of this if you look to other companies, lego in particular. They lost their patent and now there are dozens of companies making the bricks. Lego invested heavily, just prior to the loss, into licencing. I think this is the main reason for the companies survival today. Lego had a great company reputation for quality similar to Geobra and brand loyalty but they needed something to rely on when anybody today can make a brick. I even have an x client who made thousands of them in his factory, legally.

Sir Playmo your design program is amazingly beautiful, thank you for taking the time to make it 

[Sir Pleamo]

Maybe you are right, Rasputin, but I think (in terms of our final goal to influence PM design) this might be something that will assist our arguments. If we, the collectors, need and/ or want new parts (or the older ones that are no longer available), maybe some will not care about were they are from, so we and our wishes therefore would support such tendencies of other third-party-products. BUT if Geobra will support us, if they take our wishes seriously, I guess none of us would go for other sources than original PM! So thank you very much for your statement, it is sound and we should keep it in mind but turn it positively for us in the said sense, or am I wrong?

OMG... I did it again... I am afraid this post was NOT about holes!

[Rasputin]

Maybe you are right, Rasputin, but I think (in terms of our final goal to influence PM design) this might be something that will assist our arguments. If we, the collectors, need and/ or want new parts (or the older ones that are no longer available), maybe some will not care about were they are from, so we and our wishes therefore would support such tendencies of other third-party-products. BUT if Geobra will support us, if they take our wishes seriously, I guess none of us would go for other sources than original PM! So thank you very much for your statement, it is sound and we should keep it in mind but turn it positively for us in the said sense, or am I wrong?

OMG... I did it again... I am afraid this post was NOT about holes!

well I am not too sure Geobra would be very willing to discuss beyond the board room what patents they have and have lost due to time. They probably would like to maintain the image as having total controll over its past products. I do feel if one is to approach any company you should understand every element that goes into the decisions that are made. It is not as simple as saying "I want X back because it was so great and it sold well" Even popular products are abandoned due to one not being able to exercise a patent, which is basically stopping other people from making it.

You can let geobra know that I have 3 local injection molders willing to turn out basic parts. The complicated parts are a bit of a challenge unless you have the most modern machines so those will have to wait Then there is always China and its factories. Quality is all about oversight so one in theory could produce a wall piece for example as good or even better than the original. Plastic ingredients are ever improving and if the end goal is not to sell to children one could skip a lot of red tape. I am sure they would not even care if the patents were still in effect  if you do not "sell" them you can make them 

If you are able to turn basic negatives into a strength then yes your argument will gain traction.

With the recent add-on voting I view Geobra as taking notice of its collector base.

just for the record I love both steck and SystemX but I dislike the clip system. The clip system is fast and looks decent, it to me just stifles creativity beyond the obvious.  I have lots of all

[Sir Pleamo]

Well indeed, I take your point seriously but still thinking this might be an internal issue of Geobra but this should not discourage us in trying to formulate our imagination what PM COULD be like.

It is not as simple as saying "I want X back because it was so great and it sold well"

If you read my statements in all related threads (and you are right, that is in difference to a lot of other posts) I have always said that I do not like these "Bring back X" debates or the "X is the best"-issues, this is rubbish, right! So yes, I definitely second you in that point. But exactly that is the reason why I try to go such a different way, and that e.g. is a part of the story why I prefer a highly professional presentation towards Geobra rather than some loose ideas or simple "bring-back" issues. In other words, I definitely want to integrate such points like yours in this ongoing process but to make our suggestions more sound, not to throw in the towel. I really would like to have you on board for such "unorthodoxal" points of view, this could be a real enrichment!

[Hadoque]

I've just reread the whole thread.... I'm totally convinced Sys-X has superb possibilities, and as your buildings reflect, Sir Pleaymo, and creations from others like f.e. Kenc's cathedral, extremely beautiful historical buldings can be created! And not just buildings, I've seen Vauban's space-work/stories including Sys-X spacecraft and such and that is really cool too.

After seeing your designs, I started dreaming of building one day many buildings myself with Sys-X for my favourite Renaissance-era world... But it would be so time consuming to order at DS all the necessary different parts from all those different sets, as I'm rather focused on  klicky-customizing and that already absorbs most of my Playmobil-time... If I were to get into Sys-X customizing as well, I'd need a 2nd life 

What was said about Sys-X not being popular with parents, I thinkt that is true. Life is hectic and no one has time, so I fear for the fate of Playmobil's building-system(s), unless a shift in company-strategy would be made and some more focus would be addressed by the company towards adult-fans/collectors/builders.

You can let geobra know that I have 3 local injection molders willing to turn out basic parts.
...
 if you do not "sell" them you can make them 

Which will be finally indentified in 2027 as being the major reason for the start of mass migration of Playmobil-collectors from Europe to the US, George included. 

[Sir Pleamo]

Well, meanwhile all of you should have realized, that I am not a "daily poster"  ...but before blaming me for not keeping the line let me try to excuse the long break with presenting you WHAT  I have done for so long and WHY I really had no time for anything else.... We just finished Library 3.0 and WOW! this version has left any older version LIGHTYEARS behind! Surely it would be a pleasure for me if you will have a look on this Playmo3D Project!

(and if you are not interested in the Library, in other words, this work is done now for a while, maybe I will post more often again now...