Photo Competition ???

[socrates]

The thing we need to remember is that not everyone has acsess to graphics packages such as Photo Shop. What we need to decide is wether it is fairer to have two seperate competitions or to let those without expensive graphics packages take their chances with those that do.

Sorry for not letting down the topic, but I really have a general problem in understanding the big issue of digital enhancement in images... You say, some don't have access to PhotoShop, but some might not have access to a really expensive camera. Do not have access to the same sets than others have... You need special training or experience for photoshop but you need special skills for making good pictures in one shot as well...

From my point of view, exactly these differences in equipement and expertise and passion to a certain theme is what gives the spice in every such competition... And I think, using digital enhancement to put up a certain atmosphere is just one more thing between others...

If some people really have major concers with DE vs. non-DE, I am fine with splitting the contests, but for me it feels kind of artificial... The same with the customs... When voting for an image for the calender, I would love to have the choice between all different kind of styles in one competition to jugde, which helped me enjoy my playmo-passion the most...

I love all the pictures... no matter where they come from...

And if we make the calender-voting themed, then it is really a matter of inspiration in the first place, to make a brilliant entry...

So, that's my view on this topic...

best regards,
socrates


The idea of the contests after all is to find

[Tim_w]

Sorry for not letting down the topic, but I really have a general problem in understanding the big issue of digital enhancement in images... You say, some don't have access to PhotoShop, but some might not have access to a really expensive camera. Do not have access to the same sets than others have... You need special training or experience for photoshop but you need special skills for making good pictures in one shot as well...

Hello  Socrates

First and for most there is certainly no need for an expensive camera in creating a non digitally enhanced photo. I started out in the very early days using a basic camera complete with film of all things !! I used to take about 30 pictures and it was hit and miss which ones turned out. Needless to say there were a few decent pictures which i was able to post on forums. As for digitally enhanced not only do you need a camera but you also need a good graphics package and as you point out the skill to use it. The basis of the debate is allways going to be wether digitally enhanced and non digitally enhanced pictures are different regardless of any customised klickies.
To this end you are allways going to have a debate between those that feel there is a difference and those that don't.

Kindest Regards  Tim

[playmofire]

I recently went through similar discussions with the local branch of the Cats Protection League because they would not allow digital cameras because "it was unfair as you can do things with digital cameras you can't do with 'normal ones'".  I pointed out that you could do things in a darkroom with a film camera equivalent to what you can do with a digital camera, so this gave an advantage to people with a darkroom.  But digital enhancement and darkroom enhancement both come down to being able to use the methods; if you can't, you just make a hash of things.  (In addition, you could take the pic on a film camera and then scan it into your computer and enhance it!)

And where does digital enhancement start and end?  I sometimes use software to lighten a photo because the camera has underexposed a bit, or to drop out a distracting shadow at the edge I hadn't noticed.  Would that rule out my picture from the competition?

Lastly, how do you know when a photo has been digitally enhanced or not?  You depend on the person entering it, but you can't "police" the rule and so people may be tempted to cheat or may be accused of cheating when they haven't.

[deadeye dick]

Well, in my experience pictures that use a natural background (does somebody remind viking stopover?) always scored higher than photoshoped pictures... I don't think people really vote technically, but more from their belly (and I guessalso to do somebody a favour  )... Have alook at my Contest Page and be surprised how few votes I got for some Photoshoped pictures (e.g. the Kingdom of what picture)... And then my punisher pic, that was not photoshoped at all, ended on the third place... So, I dont think voting happens logically or technically, but more intuitively...

[Tim_w]

I think its being taken too literally when we say digitally enhanced and things are getting convoluted and confusing now. When i think of digitally enhanced i see a picture that has anything extra or artificial added to it using Photo Shop. This means any 'artificial' bacgrounds or special effects such as flames, smoke, fog etc. There is a world of difference between creating flames in Photo Shop than compared to setting up real flames. This is where i think the two types of picture are quite different.
Needless to say this debate has the potential to go round in circles for ever and a day so we will have to agree to disagree. All i can say is i have seen it discussed before on other forums and it never gets anywhere.
On a final note i was under the impression we want to be different from the other forums on the net ? Surely we can come up with something a little more different than a 'monthly' photo competition. I am sure that soon there will be cries to change the background to Blue  

Kindest Regards  Tim

[deadeye dick]

Well eh... My proposal was to have no contest at all ; in the first place to have no discussions like these  and second of all, to be slightly different than forums were they have contest I guess the most important thing is that people see 'our work', isn't it... So by placing it randomly on the homepage we succeed in this mission without discussing about rules and categories 

[Tim_w]

As I already said: troubles start when the word 'competition' is involved... What we can do is already implement something like the rotation scheme without having a competion -no winner, no losers - and in the meantime think about a good system to organize a competition...

What do you suggest? Maybe we should make a list of all things considered as potential pitfalls and find a solution for them 

Hello  DD 

Just going over a few potential 'pitfalls' because as you can see by the quote above you were asking for ideas earlier on so we could work out a good system to organise a 'competition' (see quote above)

Kindest Regards  Tim  

[Sylvia]

This is really awkward because I can fully agree with points being made on both sides of this discussion.

Some of the best Playmobil photos I have seen were done without using any digital enhancement at all, so I tend to agree that photo-shopping enhancement alone is not always enough to make a person choose one photo over another in a contest.  Personally, I have a tendency to favour photos that use everyday household items and materials for scenery and background like the old-style dioramas found in Playmo catalogues, and I'm sure I'm not the only one who feels that way.

You're right, Tim. It takes different types of skill to make each style of picture, but neither skill should be seen as being more clever or more labour-intensive than the other.

I know from trying out both methods in the past that it can take a similar amount of effort to produce both styles of image. The photo-shopper may not need to take quite as much time over his background or lighting, but he/she still must spend considerable amount of time editing a pic afterwards if they hope to achieve something that still looks effective and "real". Just ask DD how difficult and time-consuming it is to cut around rigging and sails on a pirate ship in order to put a real sky behind it. I can't even imagine how hard it is to create a real fire that looks good in a Playmo photo without setting your klickies alight because I never tried it, but I'm sure it is harder than it looks too.

I wonder if we really can find a solution that suits everyone. I hope so.

[Richard]

Well eh... My proposal was to have no contest at all ; in the first place to have no discussions like these  and second of all, to be slightly different than forums were they have contest I guess the most important thing is that people see 'our work', isn't it... So by placing it randomly on the homepage we succeed in this mission without discussing about rules and categories 

Perhaps we may really want to think about these words from DD. Words that appear to be almost Solomon-like in their wisdom. They may deserve to be read several times before we make any decisions!

Is it possible that the more times DD's words are read, the more sense they make?

[hoppatussa]

I believe there are only two ways that a photo contest would not cause hurt feelings.  First of all is to do as DD suggested and not have the competition at all.  The other way is to some how make a set of rules that may become soo specific some may not find the competition fun anymore., I on the other hand believe every game needs a set of rules.  How hard would it be to play Pictionary or Trivial Pursuit if there were no rules and boundaries.

I for one would love to see a photo competition though.  If you can make it on an even playing ground.  If you were running the competition to therefore turn into a calender in 2007.. I suggest one theme per month.  Such at a Valentines day theme for February.  You could use any theme to portray that theme.. wether you collect just animals, Robots, Knights.. etc.  This would make it easier to determine a winner because everyone is doing the same subject.   

Secondly, if a person wins one month.  I think the max amount of times a person can win is 3 per year.  So pick and choose what months you really want to compete in.  This allows some of the other folks to win or not feel as though the competition is more of a "popularity contest".  Overall, once you have won your three months, you are no longer able to compete for the year.

Also pick and choose what months will be a digitally enhanced competition or a straight up picture competition.  Digitally enhanced could be done every two months, or every other month if it is that commonly practiced.  I suggest a poll of how people take their photos or what kind of photo they would enter in a contest, and determine a schedule based on votes.

There should be at least one person that is the head of the photo contest who enforces the rules and picks themes for the month.  Themes can be picked also by poll.. come up with a few ideas and poll to see what the majority is most interested in that month. 

I also think that if the photo contest comes down to only two entries per month.. then it is time to retire the contest.. There should be a limit of 4 photos to have a good  competition.

Okay.. all suggestions.. I am sure some may dissagree.. I am just offering up what I would like to see.