Official Playmobil Customizing Rules !!

[CountBogro]

firstly, not world wide; this message is only on the German site. I haven't found them on the other sites.
Secondly, it appears that they have to do so by law (and everyone knows how screwed up those can be). In that case there isn't much they can do, can they.
Perhaps they could start making it along the principles of Playmobil 123 - with no articulation at all and no accessories as well ...
Or should they just go out and publicly announce "damn the law; we do what we want."

Like it or not; this is the world we live in. Take it; or leave it 

Bogro

[Martin Milner]

Martin, if Geobra is concerned about being sued by the parents of some child suffering an injury imitating the customizing method used by a Playmobil fan, collector or customizer, then they better look under their beds at night to be sure that there are no goblins, trolls or ogres that will attack them in their sleep.

This whole issue is absolute rubbish.

A child goes to the cinema to see a Spiderman movie/film, and is given a Spiderman costume as a present (or to wear on Halloween), the child jumps off the roof expecting to be able to "fly" with the help of Spidey's web shooting powers. The child is injured. The parents win a large settlement from the moviemakers, the theatre and the popcorn concession. Sorry, my friend. It ain't gonna happen!

Sounds like thousands of cases in the ligitation-happy US. Did you get that one off Judge Judy? 

Like you, I'm of the opinion that parents and guardians are supposed to supervise their children, and everybody has a duty to show common sense in their daily passage through the dangerous planet we live on, but...

 

[Klickus Mobilius]

erm ... I don't want be a spoilsport; but when I read the original German text; I come to a different interpretation ...

I read this, not as somesort of lawmaking by Geobra; but more like making a statement what they consider to be safe use of Playmobil-figures. That's what stated in the first paragraph, which unfortunately gets somewhat foggy after the babblefish translation. Apparently, by German law at least, a toy-company can be made laible if a child gets hurt when playing with a toy in a way that's condoned by the company:

"we are legally obligated to prevent such changes since we could be made liable for damages otherwise." or as stated in the original text:
"Wenn wir dabei feststellen, dass im Zusammenhang mit Veränderungen von PLAYMOBIL-Figuren und -Teilen eine Gefährdung für die Kinder ausgehen könnte, sind wir gesetzlich verpflichtet, derartige Veränderungen zu unterbinden, da wir ansonsten für Folgeschäden haftbar gemacht werden könnten. "

This whole text is meant to give Geobra the option to say "we never intended the toy to be used like this and we can't condone it too."
Actually, IMHO they tried to do us a favor by taking a fifferent stand on those "customs" meant for child-viewing and those that are meant for adults/ late night shows. They actually mention us as "highly regarded fans".

In other words - if someone is playing with Playmobil outside these guidelines and get's hurt, then in Geobra's opinion it isn't their fault.
And if they get noticed of someone doing so in the Public Domain, then - by law - they are forced to act; although they have different guidelines for adults and for kids.

But that's my own 0.02 ...

Bogro

That is how I interpreted the Babel Fish translation.  I'm glad you are able to read the original German.  (If I continue down this rabbit hole called Playmobil, I may have to learn German!)

firstly, not world wide; this message is only on the German site. I haven't found them on the other sites.
Secondly, it appears that they have to do so by law (and everyone knows how screwed up those can be). In that case there isn't much they can do, can they.

I concur with your opinion.  To the extent that geobra is complying with German law, I don't believe it extends beyond the borders of Germany as further evidenced by your observation that this notice only appears on the German site.

What geobra is doing is protecting itself from German litigation from any possible injuries to children resulting from risky customization techniques.

[Richard]

erm ... I don't want be a spoilsport; but when I read the original German text; I come to a different interpretation ...

I read this, not as some sort of lawmaking by Geobra; but more like making a statement what they consider to be safe use of Playmobil-figures.

Apparently, by German law at least, a toy-company can be made laible if a child gets hurt when playing with a toy in a way that's condoned by the company:

This whole text is meant to give Geobra the option to say "we never intended the toy to be used like this and we can't condone it ..."

In other words - if someone is playing with Playmobil outside these guidelines and gets hurt, then in Geobra's opinion it isn't their fault.

Thank you for your interpretation, Mark ... 

Based upon your translation, it appears that Geobra is only making a statement which clearly expresses their position, so that if anyone chooses to go outside the suggested recommended guidelines and hurts themselves or anyone else Geobra is not legally responsible.

I think that most of us can understand and accept that kind of thinking from Zirndorf.

What geobra is doing is protecting itself from German litigation from any possible injuries to children resulting from risky customization techniques.

Great summation, KM! ... 

It would seem that there's no "battle'" to be fought here today, my dear Playmofriends.

However, it never hurts to always be alert ...

All the best,
Richard

[Indianna]

The whole issue is a bit ridiculous, in my opinion.  If it is intended to protect them from lawsuits, then I believe that Geobra has every right to state that they don't condone certain uses of their products, but my tolerance ends there.  I know nothing of German law and very little about U.S. law, but I think it must be commonly accepted throughout the "democratic" world that any consumer has the right to do whatever he or she wants to any legal product that he or she owns.  I may not choose to put a handful of naked klickies into a fire pit and melt them on camera, but I will defend to the death the right to do it!   

Also, how can Geobra begin to enforce such rules?  The most they can do, I would think, is to ask people to remove "objectionable" material from websites or TV shows.  But what will they do to people who defy them?  Refuse to sell them any more Playmobil products? 

And speaking of playmofan.nl, does anyone know what actually happened to them?  Did they shut down voluntarily?  Was it under threat of a lawsuit?  How can a company in Germany force a Netherlands website to comply with its demands?  Is it a European Union issue?  I agree that Geobra has a right to protect their images under copyright laws (even though it makes them look ridiculous) but what's the worst that would happen to someone who defied their wishes?

[MansionBuilder]

Martin, if Geobra is concerned about being sued by the parents of some child suffering an injury imitating the customizing method used by a Playmobil fan, collector or customizer, then they better look under their beds at night to be sure that there are no goblins, trolls or ogres that will attack them in their sleep.

This whole issue is absolute rubbish.

A child goes to the cinema to see a Spiderman movie/film, and is given a Spiderman costume as a present (or to wear on Halloween), the child jumps off the roof expecting to be able to "fly" with the help of Spidey's web shooting powers. The child is injured. The parents win a large settlement from the moviemakers, the theatre and the popcorn concession. Sorry, my friend. It ain't gonna happen!

Whoever is in charge of this harassment needs to lighten up and find something useful and productive to do. I don't know about the rest of you, but I have a manual digital expression that I would be happy to raise on high and share with Geobra's overpaid legal counsel.

In the past, I have removed things from Garden Wargaming at Zirndorf's polite request (and received a polite thank you). However, if they continue this new heavy handed approach, they may not find me (or other webmasters) quite so accommodating!

All the best,
Richard

Thank You Richard! I could not have said that any better. After being harassed about my customizing of Mansions on my website and other ridiculous objections I totally gave up on Playmobil.  My only reason for posting was because I appreciated what you had to say.
It was once a fun hobby.

Rob

[Bill Blackhurst]

I will customize my collection the way I have recently started , & continue to do so! I don't do any offensive modifications, & it's my business if I should start doing so or not! No company that has produced products which I have purchased with my money has the right to challenge me regarding my creations, & uses! Once I purchase the items they are my property, & if they don't want their name noticed, don't put it where it can be seen! If they don't like photo stories don't look! It would be like Toyota telling me to remove a 4 wheeling video on you-tube showing a 4WD truck that I purchased, & paid to be modified to go mud bogging, because it showed improper, even dangerous use of their product with the emblems not being blurred out so people couldn't see the brand of vehicle I was using! Please! That is not going to happen! Playmobil is only a toy, & people know that it is a safe one that some people will take to extremes in modifications, & customizations! Come on now, this is getting ridiculous! Playmobil is getting too paranoid about their toys! I didn't sign any legal papers regarding how I'd play with any of the hundreds of Playmobil toys that I have purchased from appreciative vender's, so I'll do whatever I want! I didn't have a lawyer involved to protect the rights of my thousands of Klicky's because I didn't adopt them, they're toy figures, I bought them, so bug off!

[Richard]

... but what's the worst that would happen to someone who defied their wishes?
 

Hello, Anne ...

Over the years I've collected a number of "taboo" Playmobil images. These pictures range from mildly objectionable to extremely objectionable.

If you have a website and would like to thumb your nose at Zirndorf, I would be only too happy to email you a set of images guaranteed to get you in trouble with the Playmobil censors ...  

All the best,
Richard

[Klickus Mobilius]

I will customize my collection the way I have recently started , & continue to do so! I don't do any offensive modifications, & it's my business if I should start doing so or not! No company that has produced products which I have purchased with my money has the right to challenge me regarding my creations, & uses! Once I purchase the items they are my property, & if they don't want their name noticed, don't put it where it can be seen! If they don't like photo stories don't look! It would be like Toyota telling me to remove a 4 wheeling video on you-tube showing a 4WD truck that I purchased, & paid to be modified to go mud bogging, because it showed improper, even dangerous use of their product with the emblems not being blurred out so people couldn't see the brand of vehicle I was using! Please! That is not going to happen! Playmobil is only a toy, & people know that it is a safe one that some people will take to extremes in modifications, & customizations! Come on now, this is getting ridiculous! Playmobil is getting too paranoid about their toys! I didn't sign any legal papers regarding how I'd play with any of the hundreds of Playmobil toys that I have purchased from appreciative vender's, so I'll do whatever I want! I didn't have a lawyer involved to protect the rights of my thousands of Klicky's because I didn't adopt them, they're toy figures, I bought them, so bug off!

You go, Bill!     I'm with you!

I haven't started customizing yet, so I'm actually more of a dispassionate observer of this issue, but your argument is compelling.

I seriously doubt that if push comes to shove, geobra can touch us here in the U.S.  Risky techniques or not, we here in the U.S. have something called the First Amendment right to freedom of speech.  It can be argued that customizations fall under that right.  At least I would make such an argument.  There are limitations to freedom of speech (e.g. obscenities in a broadcast medium, shouting fire in a crowded theater, etc.), but geobra's sole rationale seems to be to protect children from possible injury caused by their copying certain customization techniques deemed risky.  Well, okay, are there indeed examples of this happening?  If not, then the entire basis of their desire to abridge our freedom of speech is based on mere apprehension of the possibility of such an event.  If they have not suffered any damage, they have no legal standing to take any action.  If there are examples of injuries to children, then the burden should fall on them to put a warning on the packages (not just on their German website) advising against certain customization techniques.

The above is just my thought using a First Amendment defense if geobra ever decides to take action against one of us here in the U.S.  As I stated before, I agree with Count Bogro's assessment that their statement is applicable only to a narrow population (i.e. those customizers in Germany who use certain risky customization techniques the end products of which are accessible to children).

And no, I am not a lawyer.  I do read a lot, though.

[playmofire]

It seems to me that this whole issue is a German one.  Under German law Playmobil has responsibilities and liabilities and they have set out to fulfil them by this statement.  German law will apply in Germany and so its application to the USA or elsewhere is I would have thought highly unlikely.  What Playmobil can do against customisers in Germany is unclear.  It may be that the law says they must use their "best efforts" against these customisers, and that may be interpreted as no more than asking them to desist.  What Playmobil have done so far may be seen as enough by any judges. Certainly, I don't see the problem as oen which will threaten many customisers overall, let alone those whose customs we see on PF.

Taking a wider view, the "threat" by Playmobil doesn't seem too draconic when compared with some other laws.  For example, the US embargo laws applied against Cuba meant that, for example, the owner of a British firm who dealt quite legally under British law with Cuba could be arrested if he or she later visited the USA and be charged and prosecuted.

Edit:  it would be interesting to have some information from anyone of klickywelt as to the response there.