Author Topic: Retrospective on Hans Beck (Press Articles)  (Read 11914 times)

Offline playmofire

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Retrospective on Hans Beck (Press Articles)
« Reply #10 on: February 13, 2009, 19:04:40 »
If the account is true, then it is what often happens, the artist loses out to the businessman.
“Today well-lived makes every yesterday a day of happiness to remember and every tomorrow a vision of hope.”

Offline Rasputin

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« Reply #11 on: February 13, 2009, 19:12:30 »
If the account is true, then it is what often happens, the artist loses out to the businessman.

Now i would not say he necessarily lost here . Yes he lost if it was up to Hans's business practices against Horsts's . Just the same Horst would loose to a competition  when it comes to designing . Hans had his vision capitalized on in the greatest sense of the word . Hans is now famous and if it were not for the cunning business mind the item could have been lost in his closet .
If you hear the sound of the bell which will tell you that Grigori has been killed, if it was your relations who have wrought my death, then no one in the family will remain alive. They will be killed by the Russian people. :prays:

Offline playmofire

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Retrospective on Hans Beck (Press Articles)
« Reply #12 on: February 13, 2009, 19:33:17 »
Now i would not say he necessarily lost here . Yes he lost if it was up to Hans's business practices against Horsts's . Just the same Horst would loose to a competition  when it comes to designing . Hans had his vision capitalized on in the greatest sense of the word . Hans is now famous and if it were not for the cunning business mind the item could have been lost in his closet .

In some ways you confirm what I meant.  Time and again great artists have ended their lives famous but in poverty or relative poverty while those they worked or who managed them have gained increased wealth from that work.  Hans Beck has fame, which he wouldn't have had if Brandstatter hadn't developed Beck's idea, but fame doesn't repair the rusty guttering.
“Today well-lived makes every yesterday a day of happiness to remember and every tomorrow a vision of hope.”

Offline Martin Milner

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Retrospective on Hans Beck (Press Articles)
« Reply #13 on: February 13, 2009, 20:46:13 »
Designers rarely make good businessmen, and vice versa. Anyone who has used Microsoft products knows that Bill Gates is a better businessman than a designer.

If Hans Beck had had the entrepreneur's vision, he would have quit his job and taken his idea to a bank, got a loan, and started producing his own figures. He didn't, he made the figures on company time and got paid a company salary.


Offline playmofire

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Retrospective on Hans Beck (Press Articles)
« Reply #14 on: February 13, 2009, 21:03:16 »
Designers rarely make good businessmen, and vice versa. Anyone who has used Microsoft products knows that Bill Gates is a better businessman than a designer.

If Hans Beck had had the entrepreneur's vision, he would have quit his job and taken his idea to a bank, got a loan, and started producing his own figures. He didn't, he made the figures on company time and got paid a company salary.



Hm, but that's not the point I'm trying to make.  Both Brandstatter and Beck contributed to Playmobil in their different ways and so both should have their contribution appropriately recognised financially.  By that, I don't mean be paid equally.  Maybe Horst Brandstatter is getting too proud and failing to recognise (or maybe preferring to ignore) the contribution of Hans Beck.  And when that happens, the artist suffers both ways - they do not receive their appropriate financial reward and the ignoring of their artistic contribution also robs them of their self-esteem.  It's not about businessmen not making good designers or good designers not making good businessmen - it's about ethics and fair treatment.
“Today well-lived makes every yesterday a day of happiness to remember and every tomorrow a vision of hope.”

Offline Gepetto

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Retrospective on Hans Beck (Press Articles)
« Reply #15 on: February 13, 2009, 21:58:09 »
I think it is true that ethics plays a great role in situations like this, I do not know the company culture in Germany. But even in the US you do not have to look far to see the same thing. The woman who designed Nike's swoosh logo was paid $75 and never mentioned again, in the film industry many actor's were paid salaries and received no royalties when their work went into syndication or DVD (Gilligan's Island and Abbott & Costello come to mind), this is a major cause of the current strike situation in Hollywood.

But there is also the fact that people are always wanting to share the success, but if the design had flopped would they reimburse the company or take a cut in wage to offset the costs? It is true that "When you win, the world wins with you, but when you lose, you lose alone.".

Offline cachalote

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« Reply #16 on: February 13, 2009, 22:01:39 »
i guess there are no members in this forum who know, really and fully, what was the problem opposing hans beck and geobra.
we all recognize hans as the father of playmobil klickies.  :yup:
but we should also recognize horst brandstater as the guy that "payed for the education" of the klickies.  :yup:
maybe one of them couldn't exist without the other and vice versa.  8}
we can all pretend that this a typical story of the employer abusing the employee.  :(
but we can also pretend that this is a typical story of the control-freak designer who thinks that he should run everything.  :(
fortunately the mixing of the two has left us with one of the most marvelous toys ever produced and everything we can say about their disagreement is little more than pure speculation.
if geobra has indeed treated hans unkindly and is now accepting condolence for his death, horst should be regarded as an hypocrit.
i guess we will never know (or maybe one day in the future we will know).
horst has, nevertheless, one big task to accomplish - he has to nurse future klickies with extreme competence.
if he isn't able to do this, he will only be remembered as the guy who failed to hold-on to one of the 20th century biggest successes.
 :hmm:
    honni soit qui mal y pense

Offline Rasputin

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« Reply #17 on: February 13, 2009, 22:03:48 »
There is nothing fair in love, war and business . As the old saying goes "It is nothing personal just business"

I do not think Hans would have been able to sell his idea . Was it not Horst who tricked the toy fair patrons to even buy the first order  ;)

Do not get me wrong i do feel sorry for Hans's situation . It is sad that in so many culture the humanities gets little to no credit while the business people get so much envy . I partially feel that they are able to create out of that frustration, like the other saying something to the effect of Blues music not coming from privileged neighborhoods
If you hear the sound of the bell which will tell you that Grigori has been killed, if it was your relations who have wrought my death, then no one in the family will remain alive. They will be killed by the Russian people. :prays:

Offline Martin Milner

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Retrospective on Hans Beck (Press Articles)
« Reply #18 on: February 14, 2009, 06:51:40 »
Hm, but that's not the point I'm trying to make.  Both Brandstatter and Beck contributed to Playmobil in their different ways and so both should have their contribution appropriately recognised financially.  By that, I don't mean be paid equally.  Maybe Horst Brandstatter is getting too proud and failing to recognise (or maybe preferring to ignore) the contribution of Hans Beck.  And when that happens, the artist suffers both ways - they do not receive their appropriate financial reward and the ignoring of their artistic contribution also robs them of their self-esteem.  It's not about businessmen not making good designers or good designers not making good businessmen - it's about ethics and fair treatment.

My apologies Gordon, I wasn't commenting directly on your post, but on the Beck-Brandstatter situation generally.

It's true that artists often if not usually get a raw deal on the fruits of their labours, and the money men get the lion's share, but as Ras points out Beck took no risk here, it was all with Brandstatter. Had Playmo failed to take off, as it very nearly did, Beck goes back to designing plastic toy telephones while Brandstatter has a big hole in his financial accounts.

The "appropriate financial reward" is what's in the contract. If Hans had focussed more on the money side of his life when he was designing, he would have got his appropriate reward. He didn't, and then when Playmo was a massive success, thought he should be rewarded in retro. Brandstatter didn't.

An excellent example of an artist getting his "just reward" is Sir John Gielgud. Until he played Obi Wan Kenobi in Star Wars he was just going along nicely as a respected, but not especially financially rewarded actor. For Star Wars, he took a risk and signed a contract for a %age of the royalties instead of a flat fee (these fees albeit usually in their millions) , and if I recall aright, the royalties also encompassed any merchanising royalties and not just box office receipts. 

Star Wars grew into a huge multi-billion dollar franchise, and Gielgud' %age (which might have been only a couple of %) made him a multi-millionaire. Since then film companies are much more careful how they draw up their contracts...

If Hans had taken a risk and signed a contract for a %age of the profits (or losses!) from Playmobil sales, or better still taken his idea away and developed it himself, then he would have had the big mansion in Florida with the rotating room, and no doubt have left an estate to support his family in perpetuity.

I can feel sorry for Hans for not realising the massive success his figures would be, but I won't villify Brandstatter for taking the financial risk of developing it and enjoying his rewards.


(moderators, you might think of splitting this discussion to a new thread as we're getting a bit off topic now)

Offline Little Jo

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Retrospective on Hans Beck (Press Articles)
« Reply #19 on: February 14, 2009, 07:59:33 »
Very difficult topic ... But you said exactly what I tought, Martin. Sad, but very difficult to decide who is right and who is wrong (I think as usual it's not black or white but something about grey).

Maybe we also should take into consideration that Playmobil (as company) currently is not run anymore by Mr. Brandstätter itself but -- as far as I know -- but by Mrs Andrea Schauer.

And I just spotted that they put a note about the inventor of Playmobil on the German start page of Playmobil.de