Romans lay siege to German town

[Timotheos]

It's funny how difficult it is to pull a projectile out of a target, even a relatively soft one.

I was bow shooting a few weeks back and naively used a four pronged arrow (the prongs stop the arrow from skidding off into the grass for easier recovery).

The backdrop target was several sheets of soft plywood stacked horizontally.

But that four pronged arrow was such a devil pulling out that I learned not to use it for target practice.

Even the straight, bullet-shaped arrows take a small amount of effort to retrieve.

Incidentally, according to a lot of source I've read, Roman military surgeons removed arrows from limbs usually by pushing the arrow on through to the other side.  Trying to pry it out back through the entry point only worsened the injury.

Getting hit by an arrow was probably a close to career ending injury though I can't find any research that estimates recovery rates per weapon.
-Tim   

[Rasputin]

Thanks for a beautiful story and lay out of your roman army Tim . 

Luckily flesh is a lot more playable than plywood so retrieving the arrow was a bit easier

[Justindo]

Tim, that's a magnificent and very realistic story and battle scene!  You've got quite a good number of men so that it's epic in scope, yet not so many that it takes forever to position them.  Your handpicked German klickies look quite good and you've got a nice mix of Roman troop types.

Almost all the sources I've read have said that centurions fought at the far right of the front line and this is why their casualty rate was so high.  As Tim shows, the optio is in the rear with his staff to urge the men forward and to make sure the men don't flee.  From the rear he also could receive orders from the commander's runners and take them to the centurion at the front or, if the centurion was killed, replace him.

Scholars can't fully conclude and/or don't fully agree on where signifiers stood during the battle.  Some possibilities include the following:  in the center of the front rank, in one of the three spots nearest the centurion, in the middle of the second or third rank, in the middle of the century, or in the rear, either in the middle, the far left, or the far right.  All these positions make sense depending on your point of view, and there's a good chance he was placed in different positions depending upon the seriousness of the situation.  That said, being in the front rank sounds suicidal and thus, in my opinion, not probable.

As for the cornicen, it's also a matter debate where he would stand.  I've read that he would either be in one of the three spots nearest the centurion so he could sound the centurion's orders or at the middle rear of the century to sound the orders from the commander.  To me, the latter sounds the most probable.

[Timotheos]

Thanks Justin

You and Martin have convinced me to station the centurion on the right and move the standard bearer back a few ranks for future displays.

-Tim

[Richard]

Hello, Timmy ...

Once the forces collided, the fight degenerated into a shoving match, much like a rugby scrum or football scrimmage.
 

I love the way you look at the "fun" of this encounter ... 

And, you even included "cheerleaders" ...

see attachment

[Martin Milner]

Almost all the sources I've read have said that centurions fought at the far right of the front line and this is why their casualty rate was so high.  As Tim shows, the optio is in the rear with his staff to urge the men forward and to make sure the men don't flee.  From the rear he also could receive orders from the commander's runners and take them to the centurion at the front or, if the centurion was killed, replace him.

Scholars can't fully conclude and/or don't fully agree on where signifiers stood during the battle.  Some possibilities include the following:  in the center of the front rank, in one of the three spots nearest the centurion, in the middle of the second or third rank, in the middle of the century, or in the rear, either in the middle, the far left, or the far right.  All these positions make sense depending on your point of view, and there's a good chance he was placed in different positions depending upon the seriousness of the situation.  That said, being in the front rank sounds suicidal and thus, in my opinion, not probable.

As for the cornicen, it's also a matter debate where he would stand.  I've read that he would either be in one of the three spots nearest the centurion so he could sound the centurion's orders or at the middle rear of the century to sound the orders from the commander.  To me, the latter sounds the most probable.

Thanks Justin

You and Martin have convinced me to station the centurion on the right and move the standard bearer back a few ranks for future displays.

-Tim

Centurion front right. Signifer (in battle) somewhere safer - I'm putting mine in the centre of the unit where they can be protected from all sides - after all the century won't be inspired by seeing their standard fall and be carried away by the enemy.

Cornicern - was he there to sound the Centurion's orders, or to relay the General's orders? I think the latter. I think the Centurion was there to lead his century in battle, and when he was there in the front rank he was in no position to dicatate orders to a cornicern. The general (hopefully up on a hill nearby) could see how a battle was developing, and order in extra centuries, or sound a retreat, as required.

Anyhoo, I'm hoping the book I'm waiting on abour Roman Army Tactics will cover this in better detail.

[Timotheos]

Cornicern - was he there to sound the Centurion's orders, or to relay the General's orders? I think the latter. I think the Centurion was there to lead his century in battle, and when he was there in the front rank he was in no position to dicatate orders to a cornicern. The general (hopefully up on a hill nearby) could see how a battle was developing, and order in extra centuries, or sound a retreat, as required. 

I speculate that the general gave his orders to the legion or army musician.  The army musician played and the local musicians relayed his calls.  I imagine the local musicians also responded to the centurion's orders.  I know the centurions had a degree of autonomy, but I bet once the battle started, "throw", "charge", and "run away" was the main repertoire.

I also speculate that the musicians played ditties to keep morale up.  Standing in cold silence waiting might wear on the nerves.

Anecdotes:
During Rome's battle with the king of Macedon sometime after Hannibal's defeat, a sharp-eyed Tribune grabbed several maniples from their positions and raced around to flank the enemy. [source "Decisive Battles" episode "Birth of the Roman Empire" (Battle of Cynoscephalae), a history channel DVD series using the "Rome: Total War" game engine.  (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Battle_of_Cynoscephalae )

I haven't read about individual centuries doing complicated maneuvers solely at the behest of the centurion, though.

-Tim     

[Martin Milner]

I speculate that the general gave his orders to the legion or army musician.  The army musician played and the local musicians relayed his calls.  I imagine the local musicians also responded to the centurion's orders.  I know the centurions had a degree of autonomy, but I bet once the battle started, "throw", "charge", and "run away" was the main repertoire.

I also speculate that the musicians played ditties to keep morale up.  Standing in cold silence waiting might wear on the nerves.

Hmmm. Lacking the valves of modern brass instruments (which when pressed switch in and out different lengths of tubing), the straight Roman tuba and curved cornu have a very limited number of notes available to the musician, and are not really suited to "ditties".

When you hear "the last post", or "come to the cookhouse door, boys" played on a modern military horn (the brass horn in the Western sets, I'm not sure what the correct name is), there are 4 or 5 notes, created using harmonics, and requiring considerable skill from the player to achieve them all.

I think the greatest number of notes theoretically achieveable from a single fixed length of tube would be six. Imagine the length of a tube as 12 units, this is divisible by 1,2,3,4,6 and 12. I can't think of a number that is divisible by more numbers to still give a whole number (and it has to be a whole number to create a note). However it's probably not humanly possible to get the lowest harmonic to sound, so the notes you can make are those related to the tube length divided by 2, 3, 4, 6 and 12.

I can bore you a lot more if you're interested.

It is remarkable that the Romans never made use of drums for their military signalling, as drums are so ancient, simple to operate and the sound carries well.

[Justindo]

I agree that the commander's cornicens would signal the individual centuries' cornicens who would then play the signal for the centurion and the century.

My understanding is that the Roman army's musicians were almost totally for signaling and not making music, especially during a battle.  The possible exception might be a few note fanfare when someone important was coming or leaving or when there was a victory triumph, although this sort of goes with signaling.

I too find it strange that the Romans never adopted the drum.  Perhaps they thought it too "primitive," but it would have added variety to their signals and limited music.

[Timotheos]

Hey where do you think Tribunes would have been positioned?

Would they have followed the legate / general around, or would they have acted as aide-de-camps (relaying messages), or would they have overseen zones of the battlefield?

At the battle of Cynospe... at the battle against the Macedonian king, a tribune took initiative and led a flanking attack, so these men must have played some role as field officers (not just general's staff).  I read Caesar's commentaries about a year ago but unfortunately don't remember if he mentioned the tribunes.  (Caesar does rave on several of his centurions who behaved particularly heroicly--not as field commanders, but champions in hand-to-hand fighting (one centurion hurled himself over the enemy shields; two other centurions were in competition to kill the most gauls).

-Tim