Author Topic: Creating a Roman Century circa 150AD - how?  (Read 38336 times)

Offline Justindo

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Re: Creating a Roman Century circa 150AD - how?
« Reply #110 on: November 21, 2008, 04:07:02 »
Play-123's prices on the Egyptians are indeed quite good!  Like Martin, I wanted to wait until they were officially released here, but I may not make it. :)

I've been contemplating how I want to organize my Egyptian army.  I was thinking of making the breastplated klickies hand to hand combat infantry and giving them helmets and shields.  I would then make the Egyptians with shoulder armor into archers and give them headbands.  But perhaps I should mix and match armor and helmet types?  And then there's the matter of color.  Part of me wants to make multiple groups, each in a different color, but then part of me wants to mix it up, which would probably be more authentic.  What are you planning to do?
:egypt: :roman: :viking: :knight: :arrr: :indian: :cowboy:

Offline Timotheos

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Re: Creating a Roman Century circa 150AD - how?
« Reply #111 on: November 21, 2008, 04:49:40 »
I don't know a whole lot about Ramses-era Egyptian tactics, but the chariot archers were accompanied by light men on foot who dispatched the wounded and rescued the charioteers caught in melee.

Ramses had four armies that he fielded on the march against the Hittites that ended in near-disaster-turned-victory in the valley of Megiddo.  Each army had its own name, though I don't remember whether they were specialized different from each other.

Egyptian foot soldiers were a conscripted, sorry lot paid with plunder.  They weren't well equipped at all--shield and crescent sword (or clubs or whatever).  As the Egyptian empire grew more prosperous, they recruited more mercenaries (Nubians, Assyrians, even Myceneans).  But the mercenary corps were led by Egyptian officers.  Military became a prestigious occupation, and a step up into or beyond the middle class, if you could afford a chariot.  Chariots were light enough for a man to carry and crossing rivers, they floated the chariots across.

As for source material, I have a couple of books in the basement, but I am obviously quite fuzzy with my details (writing from memory right now).  Most "Daily Life in Egypt" type coffee-table books usually dedicate a chapter, especially with respect to Ramses and his famous campaign.

The Nubians conquered Egypt several times.  A black pharoah could be a fun custom if you want to tap history.

I'm guessing PM is targeting the Ramsses era, but like with the Romans, who really can tell? 

-Tim

Play-123's prices on the Egyptians are indeed quite good!  Like Martin, I wanted to wait until they were officially released here, but I may not make it. :)

I've been contemplating how I want to organize my Egyptian army.  I was thinking of making the breastplated klickies hand to hand combat infantry and giving them helmets and shields.  I would then make the Egyptians with shoulder armor into archers and give them headbands.  But perhaps I should mix and match armor and helmet types?  And then there's the matter of color.  Part of me wants to make multiple groups, each in a different color, but then part of me wants to mix it up, which would probably be more authentic.  What are you planning to do?

Offline Justindo

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Re: Creating a Roman Century circa 150AD - how?
« Reply #112 on: November 21, 2008, 07:04:05 »
I don't know that much about Egypt either, but with Playmobil's Egyptians I'm primarily trying to recreate Meroe, which was in the present day Sudan and basically took over Egyptian culture when the Greeks took over Egypt.  Meroe was somewhat of an enemy of Rome in both the Republic and Empire periods, although both mostly enjoyed a peaceful trade relationship.  There were, however many skirmishes and some battles between the two, although no real wars.

There are somewhat conflicting views of Meroitic armies depending on the source.  On the one hand, I've read that Meroitic warriors were well organized and equipped and that the culture produced great quantities of iron.  On the other hand, there is one Roman account of a battle with Meroitic warriors who were supposedly armed only with hide shields and spears and no armor and poor organization.  With Playmobil's Egyptians, one could recreate both depictions or some combination.

Based on the Osprey books I have, Playmobil's Egyptians are way, way over-armored, regardless of the period.  Only the wealthy charioteer archers would have worn armor and had helmets.  The bulk of the Egyptian army was modestly equipped (bow, arrows, and maybe a knife for archers and a hide covered wooden shield and spear, ax, mace, or kopesh sword for the hand to hand combat infantry) and wore no armor or helmets.  They might have had padded headgear and loincloths in the New Kingdom.  While Playmobil's Egyptian shields, weapons, and, to a degree, armor seems fairly accurate, their infantry helmets don't seem to be based on any Egyptian helmet I've ever seen.  A cloth headdress would be more accurate, but the helmets would be of great use for other armies.  I may even use them for my Egyptian/Meroitic army.

Playmobil seems to be setting their Egyptian theme in the New Kingdom, although the shields seem to me more from the Middle Kingdom.
:egypt: :roman: :viking: :knight: :arrr: :indian: :cowboy:

Offline Martin Milner

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Re: Creating a Roman Century circa 150AD - how?
« Reply #113 on: November 21, 2008, 09:49:47 »
What I know about Egyptian armies could be written on a post-it note.

I'm hoping to learn more through Playmobil. For now I'm just getting 5-10 of each soldier figure, and I'll work out the organisation later. I'll hopefully keep it a lot smaller than my Roman Army, maybe 50 footsoldiers, 15 archers and 3 charioteers.

Shall I split this off and start an Egyptian Army thread, as we're getting off-topic?


Offline Richard

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Re: Creating a Roman Century circa 150AD - how?
« Reply #114 on: November 21, 2008, 12:08:06 »


Interesting question, Martin ...



Shall I split this off and start an Egyptian Army thread, as we're getting off-topic?




I've been trying to figure out how this entire topic was actually a "NEWS" item. But, then on the other hand, where should it have been placed? Maybe "Collector's Corner" should be expanded to include relevant chit-chat?

Actually, all this historical discussion stuff could very easily be linked over to GW-PC, rather than our asking Sylvia to create an "Historical Discussion" board here at PF.

And, BTW, there was a discussion about the Nubian Black Pharoahs HERE ... With pictures!

All the best,
Richard


Offline Jimbo

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Re: Creating a Roman Century circa 150AD - how?
« Reply #115 on: November 21, 2008, 13:03:03 »
  Elves-in-underpants   
Hi all,
I am enjoying the history lesson posted here :yup:.  It is very interesting, the great things you can do with a simple figure and accessories, or custom stuff.

What is the elves-in-underpants set?  I know that is a loaded question so be gentle, I'm an old man ;D.

Best regards,
Jimbo

Offline cachalote

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Re: Creating a Roman Century circa 150AD - how?
« Reply #116 on: November 21, 2008, 21:33:20 »
 :yup:i just wish playmobil would produce pirates as fantastic as the romans are.
 :)it was great to see how they were historically careful.
maybe they could do the same with "my" pirates and sailors and soldiers instead of adding a totally historically-wrong spanish army and turning a lot of the new pirates into red and black dressed guys.
  :'(
« Last Edit: November 21, 2008, 23:28:42 by cachalote »
    honni soit qui mal y pense

Offline Justindo

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Re: Creating a Roman Century circa 150AD - how?
« Reply #117 on: November 22, 2008, 02:57:41 »
I'm hoping to learn more through Playmobil. For now I'm just getting 5-10 of each soldier figure, and I'll work out the organisation later. I'll hopefully keep it a lot smaller than my Roman Army, maybe 50 footsoldiers, 15 archers and 3 charioteers.

My research indicates that Egyptian infantry were organized into groups of 200-250 with an officer, a standard bearer, and a trumpet player for sounding and relaying commands.  These 200-250 man groups would be all archers or all hand to hand combat infantry.  Given this information, it seems there is no strict number or organizational rules to follow, so we'll get a (welcome?) break from the 80 man centuries, 6 century cohorts, and 10 cohort legions that many of us are trying to represent.

My current plan is to keep my Egyptian/Meroitic army relatively small with two hand to hand combat infantry groups, each with 20 men, an officer, a standard bearer, and a trumpeter, and one or two similar archer groups.  The number of men or groups may, however, grow. ;) I'll get 1-3 chariots, but I haven't decided if I'll have a cavalry wing or not.
:egypt: :roman: :viking: :knight: :arrr: :indian: :cowboy:

Offline Justindo

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Re: Creating a Roman Century circa 150AD - how?
« Reply #118 on: November 22, 2008, 03:00:47 »
:yup:i just wish playmobil would produce pirates as fantastic as the romans are.
 :)it was great to see how they were historically careful.
maybe they could do the same with "my" pirates and sailors and soldiers instead of adding a totally historically-wrong spanish army and turning a lot of the new pirates into red and black dressed guys.
  :'(

I think Playmobil has done a decent job with the mostly discontinued French soldiers and the new Spanish soldiers (except for the one officer), although I would have preferred removable body armor with the latter.  The pirates are a mixed bag and are all over the place in terms of time periods.
:egypt: :roman: :viking: :knight: :arrr: :indian: :cowboy:

Offline Gepetto

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Re: Creating a Roman Century circa 150AD - how?
« Reply #119 on: November 22, 2008, 04:02:15 »
What is the elves-in-underpants set?  I know that is a loaded question so be gentle, I'm an old man ;D.

Best regards,
Jimbo

The set is 5831, the elf in question is the one on the right, I think Kelly first coined the phrase but I could not find the post.


Gepetto