Author Topic: Creating a Roman Century circa 150AD - how?  (Read 38350 times)

Offline Martin Milner

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Re: Creating a Roman Century circa 150AD - how?
« Reply #50 on: August 25, 2008, 08:41:16 »


I've left this picture oversized deliberately to give an overview of my units so far.

Offline Martin Milner

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Re: Creating a Roman Century circa 150AD - how?
« Reply #51 on: August 25, 2008, 09:26:49 »


On the left we have a century of Auxiliaries, with Hamian Archers behind. The auxiliaries are armed with spears and oval shields, and I consider them to be weaker troops than the Legionnaires, used for secondary duties (e.g. guarding the baggage train or siege engines).

To their right is the auxiliary cavalry, with a line up of spare officers in front. I haven't decided quite where these guys are going yet, but the two with yellow crests & cloaks will be in charge of the siege engines. These rest are wearing a selection of spare helmet crests.



To the right of the cavalry I have a 10 man unit of Parthian Archers (thanks to Tim for nation identification and Gepetto for sending the figures).  I'm planning on giving these guys gold scimitars to replace the daggers when I can find them. I don't know if this is accurate, but I like the look. I'm unsure if foreign Auxiliary units would have Roman-born Centurions (and Signifers and Cornicerns) or would supply their own, so for now I have a Roman Centurion in charge, and Parthians as Cornicern and Signifer. All my cornicerns will eventually have wolf head-dresses, and the signifers lion head-dresses.



Behind them with red crests, a specialist 10 man unit of... what? I see them as either mountain troops (wearing cold-weather uniform, hence the trousers and boots) or Pioneers/Engineers of some sort. Possibly they could guard and operate the heavy siege engines. I really like these figures (I didn't know until yesterday that the body is printed both front & back), and want them to be an elite unit, hence the red crests and cloaks, to mirror the Praetorian blue crests and cloaks. 

These green shields I find a bit odd - having the handle on the right means that the klicky cannot hold it in front of him facing forwards, instead it protects his left side. The red rectangular Roman shields I flip over and have the handle on the left, so the shield protects the front facing forwards, but that doesn't really work with these guys.



The Praetorians you all know. In some images (e.g. the film Gladiator) they have black as their primary uniform colour, but that appears to be pure speculation, and I've also seen Praetorian re-enactors in red. I'd assume the re-enactors know what they're doing, probably more than Hollywood researchers. I like the blue, and they make a good bodyguard unit with their spears. I need to read up more about Praetorians, but I concur with the theory that spears would be more useful than pila, because they are better for forming a bristling defensive shield wall around their leaders. A pilum is designed to be thrown, not held and thust with, as Gordon mentioned earlier. It's hard to tell what was carried from carvings and statuary, because of artistic license.



Behind the Praetorians I have the Hamian Archers who gave up their kit to the Parthians.

It seemed a shame to waste these figures when I have enough crested helmets, shields and pila to form a new unit. What could they be? I'm leaning towards having these mixed in with the Hamians to give better defense, much as units at the time of the English Civil War would mix pikemen alongside musketmen. While the musketeers reloaded, the pikemen would defend them against sudden attack such as a cavalry charge. Did the Romans do this? There's no reason they couldn't, but I just don't know right now. I'm awaiting a book that deals with Roman military tactics in greater detail, but even that is very much speculation based on equipment.

Behind the Hamian footsoldiers stand the Tribunes.


Offline Martin Milner

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Re: Creating a Roman Century circa 150AD - how?
« Reply #52 on: August 25, 2008, 09:56:14 »
I agree with you and Tim that the greaves and helmet, as well as the pilum, should not have been put in the "auxiliary" add-on pack.  Sandals, the "'Roman" helmet, a regular spear, and brown jagged hair would have made this add-on pack perfect.  They also should have made a Hamian archer add-on pack.


Agree with everything except the brown jagged hair. I'm glad the auxiliaries have different hair, that way I can swap a few over with other figures for variety. I know there probably shouldn't be any blond legionnaires, but with  jagged, curly and "squire", plus an occasional beard, there's a fair bit of variety that can be included, not that much of it is visible under the helmet.

I keep hoping that Playmobil will release a variety of new Roman klickies in the future. These would include some green auxiliaries with the changes mentioned above and a new green half-moon shield design, an aquilifer for the legion with a brown bear's head helmet and skin so we can use the klicky for our century signifiers and cornicens, and a cornicen with a grey wolf's head helmet and skin so we can use him for our auxiliary signifiers and cornicens.  This would help round out the Roman theme rather nicely, in my opinion.

Some different shield colours and designs would be nice too, and I think they'd sell in big numbers. We've already seen people doing their own stickers for Roman shields on eBay, but I'd rather have the genuine article from Playmobil. I might try to create my own shield stickers eventually, but they probably wouldn't look very good.


Regarding the "fat" Roman soldiers, I too thought this about the re-enactors I'd seen in pictures and in film until I read that when wearing a chain mail tunic, it must be somewhat loose in the stomach for flexibility.  Therefore, while it looks like they all have beer bellies, they actually don't.  (Or at least some of them don't!)

The average Brit spends the first few years of his adult life chasing women and drinking beer, the next few raising kids and drinking beer, and the next phase is finding a weekend hobby to help avoid the wife and kids, while still allowing him to drink beer.

Offline Justindo

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Re: Creating a Roman Century circa 150AD - how?
« Reply #53 on: August 25, 2008, 18:57:20 »
Wow, Martin!  You completed your army very quickly and I'm extremely impressed at all the different troop types you've mustered!  I particularly like the Parthian archers.  Now you've got me thinking about getting a bunch of the new Roman blister packs myself and using the centurions for Parthian archers and the old legionary for the Emperor's  Personal German Bodyguard.

Regarding the officers in auxiliary cohorts, originally they were usually commanded by the chieftain of the tribe from which they were raised, however by the time of the Empire, and certainly in the time you're trying to re-create, each cohort would have been commanded by a Roman Prefect of Equestrian status without a doubt.  For the lower rank officers, I would assume that the centurions, especially for "barbarian" infantry and cavalry cohorts, would be Roman.  For specialized units like the Hamian and Parthian archers, however, I'm not completely sure about the centurions, as they may have been non-Roman due to their knowledge of weaponry and tactics which probably eclipsed Roman knowledge on the subject.  I would also guess that the signifiers, cornicens, and possibly optios would have been non-Roman.

Regarding the Praetorians, Hollywood, both in the golden and in the current age, does like to show them wearing black, probably because it makes them look evil and intimidating.  I like that look a lot, but in reality blue or even red or white seems to be the more authentic color choice.  I would say Playmobil got the blue color right just as they got the scorpion on his shield right.  That said, Playmobil's "Praetorian" klicky is somewhat of a mess unless he is meant to be a Praetorian centurion.  A regular Praetorian guardsman would have worn a lorica segmentata like his legionary counterpart, his sword on the right, no greaves, and been armed with a pilum and a scutum, not a spear and an auxiliary type shield.  Still, he looks good enough to use for "play" purposes and I had no problem forming a "cohort" of Praetorians based on the one klicky.  ;)
:egypt: :roman: :viking: :knight: :arrr: :indian: :cowboy:

Offline Justindo

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Re: Creating a Roman Century circa 150AD - how?
« Reply #54 on: August 25, 2008, 18:58:38 »
The average Brit spends the first few years of his adult life chasing women and drinking beer, the next few raising kids and drinking beer, and the next phase is finding a weekend hobby to help avoid the wife and kids, while still allowing him to drink beer.

 :lol:
:egypt: :roman: :viking: :knight: :arrr: :indian: :cowboy:

Offline Gepetto

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Re: Creating a Roman Century circa 150AD - how?
« Reply #55 on: August 26, 2008, 00:34:21 »
Excellent Martin,

I especially like those Parthian archers! But I also like to see the troops in formation and you do have a nice variety of figures, thank you for sharing with us (I think you have a lot of people thinking of their own Romans and getting them out and in formation!).





Gepetto

Offline Gustavo

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Re: Creating a Roman Century circa 150AD - how?
« Reply #56 on: August 26, 2008, 02:40:13 »
Excellent indeed!!!
 :yup:

It's great to have DS! ... :-\ But, anyway, even without it, it'd take long before I could assemble a decuria ... :-[ 8} ;D

& It isn't my idea to make armies myself, all right, but, Martin, I have to say that yours is delightful!, a wonderful job, you can be proud about them!

I'd really like to see your troops fighting Tim's, in a Roman civil war ::), that'd be great! You should think seriously about it, you both! ;)

Congrats!

A splendid troop!

Gus
:blackhair:
Gus
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Offline playmofire

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Re: Creating a Roman Century circa 150AD - how?
« Reply #57 on: August 26, 2008, 05:48:02 »
You've done a great job there, Martin, to excellent effect, and many thanks for sharing with us, not only in pictures but also with detailed background information and explanation.  I think Gus identifies the next step - someone to fight, but will it be civil war or peacekeeping on the borders of the Empire or conquering new territory?

Thanks again.   :wow: :wow: :wow:

PS:  Tidying away my display setup which I had set it up in the garage to see how some changes to it looked and photograph a few things, I thought I'd try and see if I could make room in the garage for it to be setup permanently rather like your side table in your study.  Thanks for the idea.
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Offline Martin Milner

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Re: Creating a Roman Century circa 150AD - how?
« Reply #58 on: August 26, 2008, 10:16:32 »
Thanks for all the kind comments guys!


I'd really like to see your troops fighting Tim's, in a Roman civil war ::), that'd be great! You should think seriously about it, you both! ;)


The only problem is that Tim and I live over 3,000 miles apart ;D and I don't have a car (or more usefully a boat, since we are separated by the Atlantic Ocean).


Since these pictures were taken I've removed the cavalry to fit in two more centuries of regular Legionnaires, and dicovered I was ONE MAN short!  :lol: I'm awaiting a second package from Gepetto which will bring the Parthians, Pioneers and Hamian footsoldiers up to full strength, by which time I will be fielding 250 soldiers on foot in 10 centuries, plus 25 cavalry and the general command staff (Tribunes, Legate, Praefecti etc).

Unfortunately the next four weekends I'm busy with Morris Dancing and other events, so won't have the time or energy to do a full battle, but it's in the planning stage. I'm negotiating use of the bigger dining room table, which put together with this one should make a very decent size for a bigger layout. The background might not be all that so you'll have to use imagination. The poor Celts are severely outnumbered though, and will probably have to recruit some Vikings and others to make a decent fight of it.
« Last Edit: August 26, 2008, 10:23:14 by Martin Milner »

Offline Timotheos

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Re: Creating a Roman Century circa 150AD - how?
« Reply #59 on: August 26, 2008, 12:29:14 »
Hi Martin

Great pictures!  Did you get all those old style Romans from Target blister packs (in other words: are the blisters available yet?)

Regarding the green shield, if the klicky's hand is in standard position, he can hold the shield in front of him (I have a bunch of those shields in, er, lavender.  They double as the pavise shield for the medievals).

As for staging a battle between us, that would be lovely.  We could arrange the battle in the front yard that way the police man (and his backup team) who inevitably get called by my neighbors would be able to watch without busting down my front door.

Neighbors: "After Tim and that no-good foreigner get done playing with those kid toys on the front lawn, they're probably going to kill my dog or sumpthin'.  You gotta do something, officer."