Author Topic: Creating a Roman Century circa 150AD - how?  (Read 38334 times)

Offline Timotheos

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Re: Creating a Roman Century circa 150AD - how?
« Reply #40 on: August 14, 2008, 20:31:23 »
I considered making a cornu using a wagon horse wip, the horn (you pictured), and a black flag post from the castle roof.    It's almost do-able.  Alternatively, a reasonably thick wire might work also, but my last trip to the hobby part shop didn't turn up anything. 

Offline playmofire

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Re: Creating a Roman Century circa 150AD - how?
« Reply #41 on: August 14, 2008, 21:45:53 »
Though I'm not collecting Romans I'm finding this a fascinating thread, Martin;  thank you for all your work in posting your findings and pics.
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Offline Gustavo

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Re: Creating a Roman Century circa 150AD - how?
« Reply #42 on: August 15, 2008, 02:11:03 »
Gus,

I don't have any problems sourcing Roman names, as the link I gave earlier shows. It's getting them printed out, cut into strips, and stored in the heads that's going to be the labour of love.

The fun part is going to be naming the main characters - the officers, Tribunes etc. who will have specific, sometime humorous names.



Yeah, I got that ;D

The name-generating program is what worries me ... But, then again, possible mistakes won't go bad, once you wish some humour with your naming activity ...

If you wish to check up the eficiency of the program, send me some of the names though pm, and I may tell you if they're good ... I was graduated in Latin Language & Literature, after all.

But I'm very very glad that you decided to give names to ALL of them, Martin! It's a splendid way of making the thing more personal, and more interesting not only to you, but to us as well. As well as I imagine the work you'll have in writing the names ... it's gonna be great like, in a hundred, two hundred years in the future, people looking at your collection, in a museum :lol:

I wander ...

-x-

Your work is going really fine! keep with it. It's delightful!

A P. Oliua Guga* scriptae sunt res eae!

P. Oliua Guga
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*Which is my own made-up Roman alter-ego 8} ...
Gus
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Offline Martin Milner

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Re: Creating a Roman Century circa 150AD - how?
« Reply #43 on: August 15, 2008, 11:17:40 »


Time to meet the bog-standard Legionary, the bulk of my forces.

The Lorica Segmentata  he wears was in use from about 9BC until sometime in the 4th Century AD, so he fits nicely into my era. This style of armour has been discovered in at least three distict variants, and many places the Romans went. Some of there are known to only ever have been garrisoned by Auxiliary troops, so it's unclear who exactly got to wear it, but I'm reserving it for my Roman Cohorts.

The red of his under-armour clothing and shield seems to have become a widely accepted colour for the Roman army, and Playmo were wise to adopt it. He also correctly has his Gladius on the right hip, and a Pilum (light spear or javalin).

Standard battle tactics were to close to within throwing range, throw one or more Pila (two light and one heavy Pila could be carried), then close with the enemy and stab with the short sword from behind a wall of shields. Individual heroics were discouraged and pretty much suicidal. The shield was heavy enough to bash the enemy with, and the curve helped deflect missiles. The Playmo shield should probably be more curved than it is, but it's a reasonable facsimile.

The segmentata armour provided better protection than chainmail and was much lighter, but was expensive to produce and difficult to repair, and slowly fell into disuse during the 3rd-4th Centuries.

The only feature I can mention as a minus is the shoulders, which should have been covered by segmentata armour plates as seen in the first two pictures above, not the "Roman Shoulders" as we have come to call them (there is a name for these leather strips but I forget it).   However continuing the solid neckpiece over the shoulder would have prevented the arms from being raised above the shoulders, and I believe this was a deliberate design decision, not an oversight or mistake. On actual segmentata of course the pieces move - not reproduceable in Playmo-size plastic.

Offline Timotheos

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Re: Creating a Roman Century circa 150AD - how?
« Reply #44 on: August 15, 2008, 16:28:54 »
Hey Martin, one quibble--

The "lorica segmentata" term we like to bounce around traces back only to the Renaissance.

The Roman term was "lorica laminata" (laminated armor).

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Lorica_segmentata

I really shouldn't quibble about this, except that we Roman-izers are using those terms as a sort of cant to distinguish ourselves from the luddites.

Only the term is no more authentic than using the English "segmented armor".

EDIT:
On the subject of Decurions, I wasn't completely satisfied with the plumed helm, given a lot of pictures I had of the decurion wearing a cheeked dome-helmet with flowing feathers.  Here was my custom:


-Tim
« Last Edit: August 15, 2008, 16:42:11 by Timotheos »

Offline Martin Milner

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Re: Creating a Roman Century circa 150AD - how?
« Reply #45 on: August 15, 2008, 17:56:31 »
You're quite right to pull me up about the Lorica Segmentata name, I thought I'd mentioned that but must have deleted it editing.

I suspect the Lorica Laminata name has been avoided since it might get people confused with Japanese laminated armour, and they're not even sure about that designation. The Roman version is overlapping, but not exactly laminated as we now used the term.




Offline Martin Milner

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Auxiliary
« Reply #46 on: August 15, 2008, 18:12:00 »


Onto the Auxiliary footsoldier. While a Legionnaire was a Roman citizen, an Auxiliary was a non-citizen, but living in the Empire under Roman rule. The number of auxiliaries in the Roman Army grew steadily over time, sm more and more land was conquered, and local peoples had to be recruited to garrison their homelands, until in 212 AD the Antonine Decree gave all free inhabitants of the Empire full citizenship.

Lorica Hamata, chainmail, was the commonest armour for auxiliary footsoldiers and cavalry, so I'm using also the chainmail clad figure for my auxiliaries. Before the advent of Lorica Segmentata (or Laminata), all Roman Legionnaires wore chain, after it was phased out they reverted to chain, and while it was around some still may have worn chain, so this is a very useful figure. I'm not sure why the figures in regular sets are given Roman helmets, while the accessory set figures have pot helms, but mine are all going to get Roman helmets in time.


Offline Timotheos

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Re: Creating a Roman Century circa 150AD - how?
« Reply #47 on: August 15, 2008, 18:31:49 »
Hi Martin

One detail you're missing--

Judging by the photos--

All Roman soldiers were fat guys.

But seriously--

I was a little upset about the pot helms with the auxiliary add-on (also the fact they wear greaves).  On the other hand, the pot helm almost looks like the helmet worn by the old maniple army (minus cheek guards) or the later helmets worn in the 4th century army (minus cheek guards and nose protector) that evolved into the medieval pot helm.

So the pot helm isn't completely unserviceable.

-Tim

Offline Martin Milner

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Re: Creating a Roman Century circa 150AD - how?
« Reply #48 on: August 15, 2008, 20:45:57 »
also the fact they wear greaves

Golly, I never even noticed that difference until you mentioned it. Kinda wish I'd ordered my extra auxiliaries through DS now. I wonder why they did that? At least if they're not the front rank thay won't show much. Guess I can order 15~ish of the correct-legged figure and swap them in eventually. At lest the feet don't show all that much.
« Last Edit: August 15, 2008, 21:22:55 by Martin Milner »

Offline Justindo

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Re: Creating a Roman Century circa 150AD - how?
« Reply #49 on: August 21, 2008, 01:02:27 »
Martin, you've really given yourself quite the education on the Roman army!  Although I've always been fascinated with Rome, I must admit that Playmobil's theme was the recent impetus which got me (back) into Rome.  It seems it's the same in your case as well.  You've done a great job researching troop types and equipment.

I too feel that Playmobil has done a great job at recreating the various Roman klickies.  Yes, there is a bit of room for improvement, but overall they've done a spectacular job considering it's a toy.

I agree with you and Tim that the greaves and helmet, as well as the pilum, should not have been put in the "auxiliary" add-on pack.  Sandals, the "'Roman" helmet, a regular spear, and brown jagged hair would have made this add-on pack perfect.  They also should have made a Hamian archer add-on pack.

I keep hoping that Playmobil will release a variety of new Roman klickies in the future.  These would include some green auxiliaries with the changes mentioned above and a new green half-moon shield design, an aquilifer for the legion with a brown bear's head helmet and skin so we can use the klicky for our century signifiers and cornicens, and a cornicen with a grey wolf's head helmet and skin so we can use him for our auxiliary signifiers and cornicens.  This would help round out the Roman theme rather nicely, in my opinion.

Regarding the "fat" Roman soldiers, I too thought this about the reenactors I'd seen in pictures and in film until I read that when wearing a chain mail tunic, it must be somewhat loose in the stomach for flexibility.  Therefore, while it looks like they all have beer bellies, they actually don't.  (Or at least some of them don't!)
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