A problem in Playmobil Medieval production?

[Gustavo]

I'm seriously thinking of splitting the Knights theme into pre- and post-2004, when System X and the Lion and Dragon knights started.  They're getting more and more different from the basic knights-in-shining-armour idea.  Not necessarily bad, just not the same theme, and the Wolf knights are continuing along the same trend.  I bet little boys will eat them up.

Most of us like Playmobil historical medieval lines (pre-2004). Kids, however, who have been growing with movies like "The Lord of the Rings" (Peter Jackson's version) & "Chronicles of Narnya" will like to play with fantasy medieval lines (post-2004).

Playmobil continues to produce historical medieval bits (Specials), maybe in order to try to please collectors (?), but it isn't enough.

Should this splitting be done by Playmobil? Most of us miss (deeply) historical knights & civil Middle Ages, that marks the first days of Playmobil, back in the 1970s and '80s ...

Why does it happen? Are they afraid that historical lines won't sell? Won't they?
Maybe the designers team was instructed to go into fantasy?

Heather noted that before 2004, the medieval line had one feature, and after, it went into another. It has impact in the collectors community, not in the commercial sector. They will be successful (I really believe so), no matter what they produce.

I decided to propose this thread so as to open a space where we could think together some of these issues, that affect many of us, possibly in many different ways.

[Martin Milner]

The problem extends well beyond the Knights theme.

Any leather footwear that isn't black or a shade of brown or tan should be unheard of before at least 1800, yet we have vikings, knight, pirates, gauls and others wearing red, orange, purple, pink, gold and Hans Beck knows what else colours of footwear.

Clothing is similarly overly garish and Fisher Priced, in eras when they just didn't have the dyeing technology to acheieve those colours.

Playmobil have sacrificed their position as a toy that is both fun to play with AND educational, to being merely fun to play with if you can ignore the awful colours.

It's really sad, and I don't want to think about it any more.

[Gustavo]

Come on, Martin ... It isn't so bad as that. Orange boots may be thought to be leather ... Purple in vikings isn't so problematic (I even think the Vikings collection to be very natural, and little agressive ... It is a pleasant collection, historically speaking : of course, not accurate as a perfect reproduction, but even the Playmo "Merry Men" aren't that accurate, and we are all (I dare say) very pleased with it, and I really think that the problem with colours came after the Vikings collection ...)

Then again, Romans are recent, and there's no problem with their colours. And Egyptians are about to come, and everyone's enjoying it, so, in a way, we have a problem mainly with Knights and absence of civil Middle Ages and (I agree with you that not only with Middle Ages ...) with some aspects in the Pirates collections, that seem to have been lacking red coats (specially in what concerns ships; someone noticed, once, that there's always only pirate ships) ...

Gus

[Rasputin]

I keep reading peoples dislike of certain sets and colors and i will admit i was very dissatisfied with the many pirate ships colors . I have always thought it was not the color but the tones that were chosen . I thought it was a more recent situation but now that i look around my collection i see odd colors in every theme .

I have to remind myself ( over and over again ) its a toy for kids that needs to attract the attention of the mass market parents . If playmobil was to make things realistic it would look dull and boring and could not sell and untimely end the company . Children like colors and if making a toy brighter keeps their attention for 30 second longer, well you have happier parents .

The people who really do not like a set can always not buy the sets and let Playmobil know how they feel . Playmobil looks at $'s , after all it is a business that needs to generate a profit not happy collectors . I also feel that if the collector circle continues to insult Playmobil at this point in the new ( if any ) relationship it will further put distance between us . You do not insult a date on the first few dates now do you ( actually i still find it difficult  to insult my wife of 8 years with out getting in trouble )

The knight, pirate, construction, and other themes have been run for a very long time . Soon or later you have to change something or else it becomes repetitive .

and at last thought - we do have paint to cover up the bling

[macgayver]

I keep reading peoples dislike of certain sets and colors and i will admit i was very dissatisfied with the many pirate ships colors . I have always thought it was not the color but the tones that were chosen . I thought it was a more recent situation but now that i look around my collection i see odd colors in every theme .

I have to remind myself ( over and over again ) its a toy for kids that needs to attract the attention of the mass market parents . If playmobil was to make things realistic it would look dull and boring and could not sell and untimely end the company . Children like colors and if making a toy brighter keeps their attention for 30 second longer, well you have happier parents .

The people who really do not like a set can always not buy the sets and let Playmobil know how they feel . Playmobil looks at $'s , after all it is a business that needs to generate a profit not happy collectors . I also feel that if the collector circle continues to insult Playmobil at this point in the new ( if any ) relationship it will further put distance between us . You do not insult a date on the first few dates now do you ( actually i still find it difficult  to insult my wife of 8 years with out getting in trouble )

The knight, pirate, construction, and other themes have been run for a very long time . Soon or later you have to change something or else it becomes repetitive .

and at last thought - we do have paint to cover up the bling

Lol Rofl ,

very very good and strong argumentation

on all points

I also wonder why people keep being unsatisfied with the new sets
from the last years

I think no matter wot playmobil brings out , there allways will be people who have remarks

as Rasputin pointed out , we must not forget it's a TOY for kids

I cannot help it I never grew up 

from steck to system X ,that's evolution , weather we like it or not

they are both great systems to build with , you just need a lot of it

when I see the great contsructions made in System x by other fans  ,AMAZING

as for the figures

Most people I meet have fun in dismanteling a figure and create a new and personal one
where would the fun be if playmo provided all those figures ?

Playmobil has sooooo many parts ( I mostly look at a set in parts)

just any toughts

[Timotheos]

Any leather footwear that isn't black or a shade of brown or tan should be unheard of before at least 1800, yet we have vikings, knight, pirates, gauls and others wearing red, orange, purple, pink, gold and Hans Beck knows what else colours of footwear.

Clothing is similarly overly garish and Fisher Priced, in eras when they just didn't have the dyeing technology to acheieve those colours.

Playmobil have sacrificed their position as a toy that is both fun to play with AND educational, to being merely fun to play with if you can ignore the awful colours.

Hi Martin the above isn't completely accurately stated.  Medievals did have sophisticated dyeing techniques (consider the commonness of the last name Dyar and Dyer).  Some colors were difficult to achieve (a certain shade of blue came from pressing thousands of tiny crustaceans).  But others were easily obtainable.  Once you mixed the color, you dipped the cloth in, and that was that.

So, it's not correct to assume the medievals were dour, colorless bunch.  On the contrary, when you consider our fondness for stone gray buildings, we modernites may be the dour bunch.

-Tim
 

[Martin Milner]

Hi Martin the above isn't completely accurately stated.  Medievals did have sophisticated dyeing techniques (consider the commonness of the last name Dyar and Dyer).  Some colors were difficult to achieve (a certain shade of blue came from pressing thousands of tiny crustaceans).  But others were easily obtainable.  Once you mixed the color, you dipped the cloth in, and that was that.

So, it's not correct to assume the medievals were dour, colorless bunch.  On the contrary, when you consider our fondness for stone gray buildings, we modernites may be the dour bunch.

-Tim
 

Well I don't mind the colourful clothing nearly as much as the boots, I was just having a rant.

[Gustavo]

I actually like that new dragon a lot.  I hated the old dragon so much that I've avoided bothering to buy it.

But I agree with Heather's notion to reclassify knights produced after 2004.

The old knight stuff was "medieval theme"; the new stuff, beginning with those Starship Trooper Green Dragon Knights is more like a male-oriented version of the fairy-tale castle series.

(Black is mine ...)

It has a lot to do with this discussion.

It's very interesting to see appear new styles of "knights" (Ritter ... don't know the plural form ...)

But it's as well interesting to us, collectors, to learn to classify them correctly, once Playmobil classifies them all as "knights" and, well, collectors (I, myself), many times expected "Merry Men" kind of knights (=historical), and was a bit sad about the coming of other kind of knights (=fantasy), which, however, is "the latest fashion" in the cinema for children (...).


About your comments, Rasputin, it's very interesting what you said about our attitudes concerning the relationship between the collectors communities and the producer. Thanks for bringing that.

Maybe I shouldn't have titled this thread as "problem" but "question" or "issue(s)" ...


Maybe it's more a problem of some collectors. But it's something that we may think, I believe. So as to have our own collections directed ... (Not all of us can get everything Playmobil produces ...) Martin asked not long ago "when is a collection complete?", for example ... So, it's questions that come around in our minds, turned to the little klicky smiling guys in blue boxes ...

Maybe it has been only a problem for us (at least to me) to classify[/distinguish] the "knights" theme, that [recently has been bringing a new feature: fantasy. And we might (might we?) consider that historic medieval Playmo is being discontinued?

Not so, I believe, but, if things continue like this, it might come to it, I think. I don't believe this will happen, but I can't help saying that I am a bit afraid ...

However, Specials tend to look like historic, some of them ... (Medieval ones, and some others.) (& There's everything in the Specials catalogue, and this is the idea ...) And, somehow, Playmobil shows efforts of pleasing even the most demanding collectors. (Because some of us are demanding, and don't accept simply anything that is launched, no matter that it's for kids, that they're a company, that they have a market ... We are their market too, even if, sometimes, a bit ... bitter, in our demandings, frustrations, wishes, dreams ...)

I think it is so because children (until certain ages) don't complain ... Complaining is something of adults (...). Except Michael (I'm kidding )

More thoughts ...
  ]


Gus

[Gustavo]

Another question would be "Why some themes had/have to be discontinued?"

(Vikings, e.g., to mention only one)

Gus

[macgayver]

I think it is so because children (until certain ages) don't complain ... Complaining is something of adults (...). Except Michael (I'm kidding )

More thoughts ...
  ]


Gus

Lol  Thank you Gus