Author Topic: Can someone do art with Playmobil? & What is art?  (Read 16629 times)

Offline Knightmo

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Re: Can someone do art with Playmobil? & What is art?
« Reply #30 on: May 27, 2008, 01:32:15 »
Art is communication. A narrative is simply telling the one being communicated to what the "language" of the piece is. Pretty basic stuff, mechanically speaking. Granted what is being commuicated, once understood, is up for critique.

Personal investment or not requires an incredibly thorough understanding of each case. There are many factors that could be the reason for the creation that arent apparent. It could be investment of imagination, emotion(obvious--seen as art by and large) or something like time or money(could be either). Each considered a personal investment with equal weight.
--and these are not all of possible personal investments.

Meaning, dictionary def: "That which is signified by something else."

All the more important not to quickly label something that you genuinely want to understand.--or you never will.

Offline Richard

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Re: Can someone do art with Playmobil? & What is art?
« Reply #31 on: May 27, 2008, 02:53:35 »



More on the subject:

The notion that art involves a degree of personal investment (which craft lacks) is a standard I see a lot.

Yet--




Who better to fashion an appropriate response to Timotheos than Timotheos himself ...  :klickywink:



"Lost ships at sea seeking a light house" ...



"... to lure them upon the rocks of destruction."



A professor a few years back created a computer program to communicate with people.  He designed it to mostly rephrase what the person told it, somewhat like how an empathetic listener operates.

He found that people got so involved with that random program, thinking it was trully listening, that he stopped using it on people and considered it unethical.




Ah ... Rogerian software ... :lol:

Thank you for the entertaining posts, Timmy ...  :klickywink:

All the best,
Richard




Offline Gustavo

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Re: Can someone do art with Playmobil? & What is art?
« Reply #32 on: May 27, 2008, 03:08:43 »


Meaning has something to do with interaction. In a way, a painter back in the Middle Ages communicated something, and we interact with what reached us, but we cannot interact with him in person.

There is some delusions, yes, I think, in what concerns the "living artist". Is there such a thing as a living artist, is a question I make myself ... In my opinion, art isn't exactly a job ... Although there are people who are artists for profession, and I don't question this at all! If a man grew up in a family where 5 people in 10 were musicians, or painters, and he found out that he liked to do that too, and does it well, it's an artist, and there's nothing to question about it. But there is the kind of man who's trying to communicate with the world, too, like to open the eyes of everyone around. And there are the artists who will die thinking they're only designers. I don't know if Hans Beck considers himself an artist. (We should ask him! :blackhair: )

Also, many things we call art are simply some sort of craft. Painting, for example, in the day of Da Vinci had use and reason, and the painter was doing something needed to a certain purpose. I think that until photography it was like this, in what concerns painting. And there was the doing for need, and the pleasure on doing something according to the thought of the painter, in his spare time ...

(As well as the cunning of the painter. We seem to be able to realize when some sort of ambiguity was intended, even if we can't say for sure what has been the intention of the ambiguous parts. People try to read a lot of things in the work of Leonardo Da Vinci (I read him in a simple way, but I admit that people who search for ghosts will find many in Da Vinci, because he is visibly full of many hidden intentions -- which, to me, died with him, and I don't care!). On the other hand, there's art work with little and/or no ambiguity as well. Rembrandt, for example, is, in my view, very simple as painter.)

My photography isn't art, I think. But, even if it was ... enough to be considered so, I wouldn't, because there isn't a function for it ... It's mere fun. Art has reason, cause, compromise with an idea (even if the idea is the lack of ideas, or to defend that you shouldn't be compromised to any ideas). Either to decorate a church, to portrait a King, or an Earl, or his daughter, or to say that the world is wrong.

There's many things we consider art that were much like my essays ... Say, maybe, theatre. Some plays by the Roman Titus Plautus are mere entertainment. Just like my klicky stories. Maybe they'll be considered art, within a thousand years ;D

If they do, I won't know however.

Meaning is one thing, art is another. Meaning has more to do, I think, with contemporary art.

(My :2c: on it ...)

Now: "Can someone mean with Playmobil?" Certainly someone can!!! I mean groans & giggles! :hehe: Maybe someone can find deeper meanings ... Maybe I will, in the future, when I have more playmobil ... (I think that many klicky, a klicky war, may be very interesting to show some interesting things about humanity ... Only, the guys with big armies don't usually put children in the towns that are being invaded by enemy troops, and this is an interesting message ... (Not the only one, but a simple basic beginning ;) aye, Richard?)) (However, I'll never have an army with 500 soldiers ...) (I'm talking about this, & attachment.)

As for "What is meaning?" ... I already got 8} here.

& What's understanding, Tim? The matter of the "answering computer" has to do with understanding too, I think.

G.
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Gus
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Offline kaethe

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Re: Can someone do art with Playmobil? & What is art?
« Reply #33 on: May 27, 2008, 07:21:50 »
that was an incredible link.  i am not a soldier sort, but i love to see and read about the meticulous attention to detail in the gw posts and here in the pf discussions. 
thank you all for sharing.
kaethe

Offline Martin Milner

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Re: Can someone do art with Playmobil? & What is art?
« Reply #34 on: May 27, 2008, 10:34:09 »

My photography isn't art, I think. But, even if it was ... enough to be considered so, I wouldn't, because there isn't a function for it ... It's mere fun. Art has reason, cause, compromise with an idea (even if the idea is the lack of ideas, or to defend that you shouldn't be compromised to any ideas). Either to decorate a church, to portrait a King, or an Earl, or his daughter, or to say that the world is wrong.


I don't think most art has any more reason to exist than to entertain. That's reason enough.

Offline Timotheos

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Re: Can someone do art with Playmobil? & What is art?
« Reply #35 on: May 27, 2008, 14:00:22 »
I don't think most art has any more reason to exist than to entertain. That's reason enough.

I second this...

Somebody somewhere has a quote (only he said it "clever") that art doesn't exert anything near the impact on the world that its supporters claim it does.

Those who've appropriated art as a vehicle for changing the world are the ones plying us with so much political propaganda.  Some of those characters even go so far as to assert that if there isn't a political or social subtext for a piece, then it's rot (notice that even Delacour attempts to imbue his stuff with "greater social good" to the degree that he claims to have adopted the Yankees as a positive moral statement).

Too much self-congratulation ("we're saving the world!!!!") can't be good for creativity!



Offline Gustavo

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Re: Can someone do art with Playmobil? & What is art?
« Reply #36 on: May 27, 2008, 19:48:54 »
that was an incredible link.  i am not a soldier sort, but i love to see and read about the meticulous attention to detail in the gw posts and here in the pf discussions. 
thank you all for sharing.
kaethe


Thank Richard, Kaethe :) He brought this from GW-PC in the first place. It's amazing, isn't it?


I don't think most art has any more reason to exist than to entertain. That's reason enough.

I third this ... I mean, I agree.

Though, when it comes to words, and image (& propaganda), there's no way different thoughts will become message.

And there's, I think, a difference between art which is more entertaining, and art which is more intellectual. Dance, theatre, music is much more entertaining, I think, while writing (literature), and painting offer more intellectual possibilities, and, with it, all kinds of ideas. Both have to do with memory, and letting pass to the future, or to someone geographically distant, what someone (who writes, paints, or orders such services) has (or had) been living. Then, there came photography, but the painters continued to be, because we humans still draw 8} ...

Sir Elmo's stories have the intention of being like a little play (theatre) ...

There's a lot more to be read besides this, though. But the person who produces it rarely thinks about everything. As Knightmo said, understanding is for the critics ;D (And they usually understand much more than what was intended! ... :hmm: ::) )

G.
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Gus
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Offline Knightmo

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Re: Can someone do art with Playmobil? & What is art?
« Reply #37 on: May 28, 2008, 00:03:59 »
There seems to be an almost defensive mindset about art. I wouldnt fault anyone for that, in and of itself. But we cant get into peoples head and make broad general statements about intention. The possibilty of an inaccurate assesment is high. Understanding of the artists intentions and interpreting more from it are clearly different things. We cant get in peoples heads, so we dont know how many people understand this and what the mix of understanding and interpretation exists within each person or group.


Propoganda, Mystism, etc... all qualify as critiques of the art. What i meant and should have said is"..up for complete critique". How can different thoughts not become a message? There are often different thoughts combined into one message. This is why a thorough understanding is important. Labeling something and walking away doesnt make one any less a critic, it just makes a person a critic who was content with the label he/she gave. Of course only that person knows if they really bothered to understand what they are critisizing. Its interesting that its said art has little more reason to exist than entertain and yet such meaningful labels are slapped on them such as Propaganda and Mystism. Those are big reasons.

An accurate assesment of ART requires a broader view of art itself which would help get out of what seems to be a funk of defensivness.  IMHO.

Dissageement with the subject matter does not invalidate something as art. A creation is a creation. We can critisize Moral, technical aspect of the arts. For example, a painting that is viewed as morally depraved can be viewed negatively because its depraved. Saying "thats not art(or any less a work of art)" isnt correct. It is just as much art as a morally uplifting painting, it was just inspired by depravity. In the example of the child piling toys on a table: Just because a "pile" is mundane to most, doesnt invalidate the craft. To the child, the pile is an ordered form that he/she created either from inspiration or from experience from witnessing someone create a similar form.

« Last Edit: May 28, 2008, 00:57:19 by Knightmo »

Offline Timotheos

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Re: Can someone do art with Playmobil? & What is art?
« Reply #38 on: May 28, 2008, 02:15:48 »
Dissageement with the subject matter does not invalidate something as art. A creation is a creation. We can critisize Moral, technical aspect of the arts. For example, a painting that is viewed as morally depraved can be viewed negatively because its depraved. Saying "thats not art(or any less a work of art)" isnt correct. It is just as much art as a morally uplifting painting, it was just inspired by depravity. In the example of the child piling toys on a table: Just because a "pile" is mundane to most, doesnt invalidate the craft. To the child, the pile is an ordered form that he/she created either from inspiration or from experience from witnessing someone create a similar form.

But, as as Richard explained a few postings back, my disorganized, non-sequitor-laden blathers are a form of art, so how can you invalidate or dissect them as the above quotation appears to be doing?

You are intellectually obligated to give me the benefit of the doubt and put me on a pedestal, because you just don't know--I might be a genius.*

Every post I make is an investment of myself, my experiences, my world view--from my particular privileged vantage that only artists (like me) can understand.

I'm creating a portrait of mankind--post by post, thread by thread: mankind sifted through the filter of childhood fancy, both progression and regression, maturation and infantilism, senility and personal growth.

To Richard: how can I continue producing my art on this forum when these foot soldiers of the bourgeois capitalist Global Inc. are allowed to keep taking their rustic--nay, bucolic--cheap shots and making their petty post-agrarian pre-pubescent neo-conservative bleatings at my expense?

I demand, at the very least, that people open their minds and indulge me.  I mean my art.

Yes!  Indulge!

Oh!  You simplistic hobbits!  (I dare use the Tolkien analogy in hopes that by invoking this pre-natal pop-culture reference I may at least make some tenuous connection with the Bilbos and Frodos I now find myself fending off... unlikely!).   

In closing:
Nobody has a right to question art (unless you are a certified critic or one of my mentors).  You have only the right to consume, consume, or get lost! 

Shoo!  Scram!  Vandals!  Ostrogoths!  Attercop! 
Quote
    Old Tomnoddy, all big body,
    Old Tomnoddy can't spy me!
    Attercop! Attercop!
    Down you drop!
    You'll never catch me up your tree!
=====
* Seems unlikely, but just to be safe...

Offline Knightmo

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Re: Can someone do art with Playmobil? & What is art?
« Reply #39 on: May 28, 2008, 03:17:22 »
 ???

I said art isnt invalidated by subject.

I dont see any dissecting or invalidating. In fact, You just dissected and described the heck out of your own words. I did nothing like that.

If you mean what said about defensivesness, I said "seems". My perception. Observation. Different from simply concluding that something is absolutley one thing or another. Slight differences in grammer, I guess.  I dont see how that invalidates anything, anyway.

Art is communication. If an artist wants to communicate something, he/she will accept questions about it, so the beholder of the art understands what is being communicated. It is not uncommon for artist to explain further about what appears to be obvious (or not obvious). Look at the custom figure posts. Sometimes they dont need explaination. Whether they do or not, it is always helpful and nice to know the thoughts and technique behind the creations. If either artist or the beholder think they are entitled to either not answer or not ask questions, thats fine and dandy. --but the communication probably wont be nearly as understood.

And Richard is right..your posts are entertaining:)