Modern Military (1914+) banned from Klickywelt?

[Richard]

Hello, Martin ... 

Agreed. In the UK the national percentage of non-whites is still nearer 5% than 10%, though they are greatly concentrated in the major cities, and in London we have a very cosmopolitan mix, maybe 20-25% non-white.

In some cities and towns you won't see a non-white face all day - and when you do you suddenly realise why you felt you were in an episode of the Twilight Zone.

I don't have to go far, about 3 miles up the road to Southall, to be the only white face in a crowd of Asian faces, and briefly feel how it must be to be the odd one out.

In the Virgin Islands, the "white faces" make up only about 10% of the population!

It would be interesting to know what the percentages are here at Playmofriends. Unfortunately, I can't think of how we could do that anonymously.

But, are we getting "off topic" ... or, is this really an important part of the whole picture?

All the best,
Richard

[CountBogro]

... But, are we getting "off topic" ... or, is this really an important part of the whole picture? ...

Actually, I don't really think we are "off topic". I've visited the place only once (to be honest) but I did gather that most of the designers came from the area of Zirndorf. So, Geobra's ideas about any theme are more or less decided by the local views and visions. So ... yes; a ACW or western theme series wouldn't be a problem as actually all we really know about it is about movies like "Gone with the wind"; "The Good, the bad and the ugly" and such. Highly romanticised (in a way) and not hurtfull to the designers as it's not part of their mindset.

It's a local thing. I allways thought of Playmobil as a big international operation. But when I visited the plant someone made me realise that it isn't. It's a local German manufacturer that produces a German toy that they sell worldwide. That's all.

I think that that explains a lot.

Just my own 0.01 worth.

Bogro

[Timotheos]

To Richard:
On the contrary, I don't believe we are sufficiently off topic!

Returning to off subject:

the exceptions with an "agressive" potential are:
- police;
- pirates;
- knights;
- old egypt;
- roman empire;

i think this is a very good example to where playmobil intends to go.
even the potentially "agressive" sets have clear "good" guys (the police) or are based in ancient history (all the others).

To Cachalote:
Cachalote, you're near the top of the list of people I like on the forum, but, gosh, I hope your views are a minority!

(RE: people who want to see all military themes disappear)

But, seriously, I think Playmobil has kept the same proportion of modern themes to military themes since I was a kid.    When I was a kid the following themes were huge: construction, farming, vacationing (modern "leisure"), hospital, police, and racing vehicles. 

I think military themes are harmless for kids.  It's the graphic depictions in movies that provide the disturbing images.   I played cowboys and indians and civil war Playmobil as a kid and didn't even think of it in terms of "killing people".

Yeah, klickies "died" but as a kid I didn't connect it to real people actually dying.

If a kid has never seen a person killed, I don't believe playtime adventuring has any meaning to them beyond just interacting with their toys.  They don't have a "context" against which to associate Play and Reality.

Besides, violent children who grow up to be social problems likely don't spend a lot of time playing with Playmobil to draw inspiration from it.....

I'd argue: if the kid is playing with playmobil, odds are, even if he's pulverizing his klickies with feigned nuclear blasts, he's going to grow up to be a pretty harmless guy.

-Tim



-Tim

[Richard]

Hello, Bogro ... 

It's a local thing. I allways thought of Playmobil as a big international operation. But when I visited the plant someone made me realise that it isn't. It's a local German manufacturer that produces a German toy that they sell worldwide. That's all.

Well said!

My family and I visited the plant at Dietenhofen in 1986 and I think with this statement, you've said it all, Bogro,

"(Playmobil is) ... a local German manufacturer that produces a German toy that they sell worldwide."

All the best,
Richard

[LHAAP]

If I remember correctly, the last time I looked (which wasn't too long ago) Lego minifigs seemed to be more yellow than pink ... (Am I correct?)

You're right, Richard. I just meant that EVERY LEGO man has the same skin colour (except licensed figures) and by PLAYMOBIL at least some few has another than the majority;)

[cachalote]

i am not against military playmo-themes tim, w.w.1 or 2 included.
belonging also to the "creative design" world (although i stick to buildings) i often replace a more objective criticism with a what-would-i-do-if-i-was-the-chief-designer approach.
in this case, i was reading on the "ban" and my first thougt was that i hate "bans". 
but then i tried to imagine a playmo goebbels figure and suddenly realised that a playmo-smile would be just disgusting. 
the "ban" started not to seem so stupid.
then i thought about the smile as the main concept behind playmobil and started to think if everyone could/would smile back at the klickies. 
the "skin-color" problem came to my mind instantly.
maybe, as bogro said, playmobil designers can be considered as plain narrow-minded very local "zirndorfians" that no nothing of the world that surrounds them.
it is a possibility but i find it difficult to imagine geobra as such a "naive" company.
i don't know what to think.
... but i know there are other problems that give me no reason to smile:
- a lack of female figures,
- the solo-christian view, reinforced with the marriage teme,
- the separation betwen masculine and feminine themes (pink was used in the boxes of the victorian doll-hose theme);
i have no problems with the more "action" oriented themes - you can easily forget the real "agression" potential in pirates, knights, vikings or romans, and see them as good guys.
on the other hand, aplying a smile to a s.w.a.t. policeman doesn't seem to be such a good idea...
anyhow, maybe the smile created by geobra could be a good criteria to future designs, considering that everyone (and not just blond boys) should be able to smile back at the klickies. 

[Rasputin]

just to point out that this had something to do with Playmobil asking GWG to remove certain images depicting Klickies in WW2 attire. It was a toy created by them and they are dictating how we can show them to the public ( more or less )

Now if I remember back at another forum the creator of that site felt it was not in the interest of his site to allow certain people to express themselves in a particular manner that he found to be offensive to his philosophies . So he Banned them .

I see some similarities in these events in they are dealing with censorship .

Here in the US we are having problems with free speech ( as many others are as well ) . If your opinions do not go along with their overall good than you get blacklisted or worse yet, silenced .

I do not have any problems with playmobils choices of themes but when they start shoving their philosophies down the throats of the "Free" individual than i feel they have crossed the line .

It was suggested playmobil staff might suffer from a little isolation or island fever , but do we all have to suffer ? it is a big beautiful & ugly world out there just open your eyes and let it in. Editing it or censoring it is not the answer.

[CountBogro]

Phew a lot of questions ... and perhaps I can try to answer a few.

Firstly at Cachalote;

Geobra used to have mixed themes. A nice example is the old Knights theme of the '80s. Knights and shops in the same theme. Unfortunately, they discovered that they just didn't sell that well. After that they found out that seperate themes for boys and girls worked much better. So they did just that. And that answers your complaint of "not enough women in the themes" as well. You're wrong there. There are plenty of women in the girls themes !!! (some goes for child klickies BTW). Why? Well, from my own experience; I see the boys mostly picking up the (make) knights, soldiers and firefighters and such - but hardly ever the females. In other words - I guess they just don't sell that well. Apparently girls have a much more balanced worldview as boys are represented in their themes.
Still, I too think it's a pity they seperated the themes; but according to a designer I've heard speaking they found out the hard way it just didn't work.

The Solo Christian view is clear; I give you that but then again it is a German toy and I think that in the area where Playmobil is produced at least 90% of the people are christians and so is their market they target. They create their themes and sets from what they see around them for the market that's directly around them. Like I said before; it is a German product. There are some shifts (as the SWAT-sets show); but how that will develop is something for the future.

What you think or believe is not relevant (nor is my thoughts about it). The decisions (I think) are being made by the majority of buyers (that's definity not us) and the local design team in Zirndorf. I am sure we all have ideas we would gladly put forward; question is though - will they do as well as the Arc of Noah Somehow I doubt it.

Just my thoughts though (except for the designer part - I really heard him say that)

Bogro

[CountBogro]

just to point out that this had something to do with Playmobil asking GWG to remove certain images depicting Klickies in WW2 attire. It was a toy created by them and they are dictating how we can show them to the public ( more or less )

Now if I remember back at another forum the creator of that site felt it was not in the interest of his site to allow certain people to express themselves in a particular manner that he found to be offensive to his philosophies . So he Banned them .

I see some similarities in these events in they are dealing with censorship .

There are some great differences first. As far as I know, Geobra has the copyright on the images of Playmobil and since the first and second world war can still be a very sensative area in Germany, Geobra doesný want their brand to be associated with that. I can understand that. Secondly; they didn't force anyone - they asked. Wich GWG followed through.

In case of the "other forum" the creator banned people without notice, without warning and without any reason whatso ever and without even bothering to listen to what they have to say. That's not censorship. That's blind dictatorship. Sorry - I won't buy that.

Here in the US we are having problems with free speech ( as many others are as well ) . If your opinions do not go along with their overall good than you get blacklisted or worse yet, silenced .

I do not have any problems with playmobils choices of themes but when they start shoving their philosophies down the throats of the "Free" individual than i feel they have crossed the line .

It was suggested playmobil staff might suffer from a little isolation or island fever , but do we all have to suffer ? it is a big beautiful & ugly world out there just open your eyes and let it in. Editing it or censoring it is not the answer.

They don't "shove" their philosophies down anyones throat. They want to keep producing a friendly child's toy and they want to secure that. Anyone is free to do what they want with it. But when they start showing it in the public domain, then their role changes. If they don't react to it others will question their passiveness as well. As if they condoned what happened. Tricky. They just exercise their right. As Disney would do if somewhere a porn version popped up with Mickey Mouse. It's a fine line, my friend.

As to their isolation or island fever ... who did suggest that? I can't find that ... must have missed that.

Anyway, It is indeed a very bad world out there - but that doesn't mean I have to confront my boys to that in their child years! I find Pirates and such violently enough - but it is clearly childsplay since no one of us can remember anything like that happening. If we can (like the nation that´s banning the pirates' then it´s no more childsplay. Then it´s no longer creating a platform to play out the childs fantasy. Then it becomes a platform to play out the childs live. And that´s not what Playmobil is meant to be. I think.

Bogro

[Timotheos]

the "skin-color" problem came to my mind instantly.
...
- a lack of female figures,
- the solo-christian view, reinforced with the marriage teme,
- the separation betwen masculine and feminine themes (pink was used in the boxes of the victorian doll-hose theme);

Hey Cache,

Maybe calling Zirndorf narrow-minded is a little strong.
 
As a devout atheist, I haven't felt PM's religious themes were heavy-handed.  I mean, as far as the wedding went, somebody probably said "let's do a wedding theme; little girls like to play wedding."  And, I mean, how else are they going to depict it?  A courthouse with the county clerk issuing the documents (not fun!).  A Shinto wedding (fun for me; probably few else).  And, in addition to that, young, fashionable Japanese and Chinese prefer western style weddings in churches (even if it's fake and they hired the priest).

So, that leaves us with the un-religious "western" customers and Muslem customers maybe being turned off by a Church wedding.  So I see PM's church decision as rational.

I joke about the race stereotypes too, but when you think about it, Sub-Saharan Africa isn't exactly Playmobil's biggest customer, and Chinese, Japanese and many Indians and Middle Easterners are fair-skinned.  Hispanics in the USA are happy to be considered fair-skinned (most are).  So the big issue I guess would remain for African-descended Americans and Europeans, who possibly might be more attracted to Playmobil with more black klickies.

On the other hand, considering that some toy brands have already waded deeply into Chinese / Japanese motifs, one might argue PM is a little behind the times, yet the company claims not to follow trends, anyway.

-Tim