Author Topic: US Cavalry, Saddles, Rifles - split from LHAAP's Catalogues  (Read 3329 times)

Offline Martin Milner

  • Eugene, Oregon, USA
  • Playmo Master
  • *****
  • Posts: 2754
  • Gender: Male
    • An Englishman in Eugene
US Cavalry, Saddles, Rifles - split from LHAAP's Catalogues
« on: February 28, 2008, 15:46:57 »
***SPLIT THREAD*** as I had dragged things off topic!

Well, what I thought was odd in LHAAP's catalogue picture (see other thread) was the saddle on the horse.

The rifle loop is on the left, but every saddle I've got the loop is on the right, where you'd expect it for 90% of the population - so I thought this part of the picture was reversed. Playmodb doesn't show a left-loop. Yet the box was obviously not reversed, as there is writing on it.

However in the later picture for Direct Order 7708 (near the end), these rifle loops also appear to be on the left.

So it appears that once upon a time the saddles had rifle loops on the left.

BTW, I really like these small sets of related items as a direct order idea, but it seems they didn't sell well as they're not offered that way anyomre.


« Last Edit: February 29, 2008, 17:28:54 by Martin Milner »

Offline playmofire

  • Klicky Firemeister
  • Playmo Guru
  • ******
  • Posts: 10924
  • Gender: Male
    • Copt Hewick Volunteer Fire Brigade - probably the world's smallest fire brigade!
Re: Old Playmobil catalogues
« Reply #1 on: February 28, 2008, 16:23:35 »
I recall having at least one saddle like this.
“Today well-lived makes every yesterday a day of happiness to remember and every tomorrow a vision of hope.”

Offline Sir Gareth

  • Playmo Addict
  • ****
  • Posts: 788
  • Gender: Male
Re: Old Playmobil catalogues
« Reply #2 on: February 28, 2008, 19:06:01 »


So it appears that once upon a time the saddles had rifle loops on the left.


 In the western sets from the later part of the 80's such as 3485 US cavalry and 3749 Cowboy the rifle loop was on the left, in those days Playmobil horses only came with a bridal and no reins.

As a further development to the horse playmobil introduced a new bridal that reins could be attached to and held in the figures left hand. My theory is that the design team found that the reins in the hand got in the way of the rifle butt when they produced the set 3811 US Cavalry so to overcome this they put the loop on the right of the saddle.

I'm only human, born to make mistakes.

Offline Martin Milner

  • Eugene, Oregon, USA
  • Playmo Master
  • *****
  • Posts: 2754
  • Gender: Male
    • An Englishman in Eugene
Re: Old Playmobil catalogues
« Reply #3 on: February 29, 2008, 08:28:45 »
A quick and by no means comprehensive search of images on Google suggests that the usual place to carry the rifle (or more likely carbine) was behind the right leg. I've seen three different images of this from different sources, but only one with the rifle obviously on the left, and one more with the rifle in front of the right leg.

The mystery of the left-loop is solved, but I wonder why it was put there in the first place? Playmobil research & design being somewhat better in those days than currently (or so it feels) there must have been a reason.

Offline playmofire

  • Klicky Firemeister
  • Playmo Guru
  • ******
  • Posts: 10924
  • Gender: Male
    • Copt Hewick Volunteer Fire Brigade - probably the world's smallest fire brigade!
Re: Old Playmobil catalogues
« Reply #4 on: February 29, 2008, 08:46:11 »
From my memories of Saturday morning films staring Kit Carson etc at the Savoy Cinema at Stanningley, the rifle was always carried on the right side of the saddle with the butt projecting in front of the rider's right leg, so the findings from Google are a bit of a surprise.  However, film makers in those days weren't sticklers for accuracy.
“Today well-lived makes every yesterday a day of happiness to remember and every tomorrow a vision of hope.”

Offline Richard

  • Retired Playmobil
  • Wargamer
  • Playmo Master
  • *****
  • Posts: 4965
  • Gender: Male
    • Garden Wargaming
Re: Old Playmobil catalogues
« Reply #5 on: February 29, 2008, 14:23:32 »

Hello, Gordon and Martin ...

From my memories of Saturday morning films staring Kit Carson etc at the Savoy Cinema at Stanningley, the rifle was always carried on the right side of the saddle with the butt projecting in front of the rider's right leg, so the findings from Google are a bit of a surprise.  However, film makers in those days weren't sticklers for accuracy.

A quick and by no means comprehensive search of images on Google suggests that the usual place to carry the rifle (or more likely carbine) was behind the right leg. I've seen three different images of this from different sources, but only one with the rifle obviously on the left, and one more with the rifle in front of the right leg.

The mystery of the left-loop is solved, but I wonder why it was put there in the first place? Playmobil research & design being somewhat better in those days than currently (or so it feels) there must have been a reason.

A cowboy could put his rifle or carbine pretty much wherever it pleased him. However, Cavalry and Mounted Rifles had regulations to follow. The "regulations" usually had some semblance of logic behind them.

Cavalry tucked their carbine under their left leg as they carried their sabre on the right side. However, Mounted Rifles carried their rifles in a boot cup behind their right leg with a strap around their right arm for quick deployment.

see attachments

Offline Martin Milner

  • Eugene, Oregon, USA
  • Playmo Master
  • *****
  • Posts: 2754
  • Gender: Male
    • An Englishman in Eugene
Re: US Cavalry, Saddles, Rifles - split from LHAAP's Catalogues
« Reply #6 on: February 29, 2008, 17:46:45 »
I've moved these posts about the Cavalry saddle & rifle because I'm finding it fascinating, but a bot off the original topic.

I found some more modern pictures of re-creationists in US Cavalry outfits, with their sabre tucked under the left leg in much the same place as the rifle in Richard's third picture.

Re-creationists (is this the right term??) tend to be accurate because they's that they do. These guys didn't have rifles or carbines at all, as far as I could see.

Of course it's entirely possible that different traditions grew up in different regiments - and as Richard highlights, not all mounted troops are the same anyway.

In the UK, Dragoons were the troops that rode to battle on a horse, but got off to actually fight. A Dragoon's horse would be a much cheaper and less battle-trained horse than a full cavalry mount.

The full cavalry would usually be reserved for breaking an enemy line with a mounted charge, and would charge with a sabre drawn, and possibly a pistol handy.

I really need to read up more about this. As with the Romans, Native Americans, Ships and the Knights, the Playmobil theme of US Civil War and the US Cavalry is moving me to do more research (if only a little light reading with lots of colour pictures!).



« Last Edit: February 29, 2008, 17:53:11 by Martin Milner »

Offline Richard

  • Retired Playmobil
  • Wargamer
  • Playmo Master
  • *****
  • Posts: 4965
  • Gender: Male
    • Garden Wargaming
Re: US Cavalry, Saddles, Rifles - split from LHAAP's Catalogues
« Reply #7 on: February 29, 2008, 17:48:14 »


I FOUND THE "SPLIT TOPIC," MARTIN ...  :wave:

***SPLIT THREAD*** as I had dragged things off topic!

You really didn't "drag things off topic" as much as I did. So, thanks for splitting it off. (Actually, we probably should be discussing this stuff over at GW-PC, as we don't even have a Toy Soldier or Military header here at PF.)

Hmmm ... maybe we should ask Sylvia for one ...  ;D

All the best,
Richard


Offline Jimbo

  • Playmo Master
  • *****
  • Posts: 1396
  • Gender: Male
Re: US Cavalry, Saddles, Rifles - split from LHAAP's Catalogues
« Reply #8 on: February 29, 2008, 22:19:57 »
Hi all,
Just a thought...we carried our Winchesters on the left of the
horse.  That's the side you mount and dismount from.
Happy trails,
Jimbo

Just talked to a fellow that did a bit of riding.. he carried his rifle on the right.
« Last Edit: February 29, 2008, 22:36:39 by Jimbo »