Author Topic: Why is the Western Fort empty, and where is the cavalry?!  (Read 8801 times)

Offline JPSA

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Re: Why is the Western Fort empty, and where is the cavalry?!
« Reply #40 on: October 22, 2020, 00:01:40 »
Okay.  I will re-iterate my point, one final time, as this discussion is getting circular:  Regardless of how some people — perhaps even a ( vocal! ) minority — personally feel about it, i think it should be up to consumers ( parents ) to decide, and talk to their children if they want to.  What's next, take out the comics I mentioned too? ...The conflict was long enough ago, imo.  Also, Cavalry + ACW sets used to be available up until fairly recently, and that was o-kay; they were partially suppressed for political reasons — because the political climate, in the US especially, has escalated to fever pitch in recent years, not because history has changed.

As I said, in many respects, we are less free and tolerant, today, in terms of freedom of choice and expression, than we were 20 or 30 years ago.  That's the main wrong, here; and there will be no end to it, if we let it.  ...First, they'll come for the Wild West sets, then it will be pirates ( Do I detect "toxic" masculinity? ☺ ), then it will be Romans & Egyptians, then, the Victorians ( corseted women?  ...Horrible!!! ).  Everything can be claimed to be offensive, these days... even existing, if you're the 'wrong' demographic ( metaphorically, of course, but will get there, I am sure )!  ...Geobra ought to be careful, though, because one of these days, "cultural appropriation" charges will be levied against them ( a German toy manufacturer! ) — if it hasn't already —, and they'll be pressured to pull many, if not most, of their period sets ( including Indians! ), and quite a few others besides.


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This is the flipside of wanting more diversity and political awareness and so forth in PM sets. The price for that is losing the distinct cultural sets that frankly made PM something special. Merry Men's Hideout? Too eurocentric - we'll not see its like again. Christmas is oppressive. History itself must be rewritten to conform with modern notions of what's right.
— Macruran


P.S.  Kids don't look at the Indians as the 'bad guys', but as the antagonists in the pair 'Cowboy and Indians', much like black and whites in chess.  Sometimes they play Indians, sometimes they play cowboys / cavalry.  They are not passing moral judgment ( In fact, I claim they are learning to see conflict from opposite viewpoints, which is part of their moral education ).  Adults sometimes do, though.  In other words, kids playing cowboys and Indians is not going to make them racist, if that's what some people are worried about ( but it might turn them into a chip in the adults' ongoing political / culture [ translation: power! ] wargames — as usual ).
















« Last Edit: October 22, 2020, 01:33:00 by JPSA »

Offline Oliver

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Re: Why is the Western Fort empty, and where is the cavalry?!
« Reply #41 on: October 22, 2020, 03:41:48 »

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As far as historical Playmobil set 'coherence', the sometimes magnificent period dioramas that can be made in, say, the medieval period, or the western era, indicate that they are very coherent — by which I meant homogeneous to the overall period ( as opposed to heterogeneous, as in 'not belonging there' )


Actually the medieval sets provide a very neat example of where Playmobil avoided something (presumably) because they deemed it controversial - namely the conspicuous lack of any religious figures until the late 1990s when a couple of monks appear - well after the rest of the civilian knights theme was long gone.

Did they think that children weren't interested in playing with a church? Did they think that the confessional divide in Germany made it a problem? Did they think that parents would consider religious figures offensive? Were they worried about people who felt being Catholic was somehow 'unGerman' ? I have no idea, but I don't believe it's a coincidence that they ignored the church when they made those sets.



As I said, in many respects, we are less free and tolerant, today, in terms of freedom of choice and expression, than we were 20 or 30 years ago. 


There is no meaningful way which people have less freedom of choice or expression than in the past -  the fact that opinions have changed, or that people who have traditionally been ignored are able to have a voice is not an erosion of freedom. I'd also say it's particularly curious to complain about 'indoctrination' and then attempt to control a child's access to media to ensure that his worldview aligns with your own, but such is human nature.


« Last Edit: October 22, 2020, 04:36:11 by Oliver »

Offline GrahamB

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Re: Why is the Western Fort empty, and where is the cavalry?!
« Reply #42 on: October 22, 2020, 06:37:14 »
I think that's a good point Oliver, about the lack of religious elements in PM.

As a toy manufacturer, geobra can't please everyone all the time. Some themes are complete no-go areas; Nazis, adult themes, jihadists, etc. But there are potential minefields everywhere. Let's make a church. Should it have a confession box? Let's make an American historical set. ACW? Slaves? Suppression of Native Americans? Cavalry with blue uniforms reminiscent of the civil war "winners" ?

As I see it, geobra are wise to steer clear of anything which reminds people of the current divisions in their society. The polarisation of politics (and not just in the US) makes divisions even more pronounced at the moment. And Covid isn't helping people feel calm.
At that moment the ship suddenly stopped rocking and swaying, the engine pitch settled down to a gentle hum. 'Hey Ford.' said Zaphod, 'that sounds good. Have you worked out the controls on this boat?' 'No,' said Ford, 'I just stopped fiddling with them.' (With thanks to Douglas Adams)

Offline tahra

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Re: Why is the Western Fort empty, and where is the cavalry?!
« Reply #43 on: October 22, 2020, 07:46:25 »
As I said, in many respects, we are less free and tolerant, today, in terms of freedom of choice and expression, than we were 20 or 30 years ago. 

Completely agree.


Did they think that parents would consider religious figures offensive?

I do. Even if I am not a parent. And promoting extremely violent stories as being fit for children, and making it look like a good thing... well.. that was a shock to me. Though I believe THAT particular one may have changed recently. I hope.

I hate it that they keep coming up with MORE of those. Then again, with their turn to either pink or fight, those sets ARE about the only civilians we get, so.. well. We DO need them.


Offline Ismene

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Re: Why is the Western Fort empty, and where is the cavalry?!
« Reply #44 on: October 23, 2020, 07:03:14 »
...How about fairies?  That's open-ended and blends well with the princess' castle.

Oh no, she doesn't want fairies. She may have a princess or two, but they haven't seen the light of day for awhile (possibly years). I haven't shown her the rabbit people because I suspect she'd assume they were demon-possessed. She likes viciously attacking my exclusive historical klickies with large animals, but by-and-large the human klickies are accessories.


I'm also in the American West, southwest actually. My state wasn't that important in the Civil War because it wasn't a state. I agree with Macruran that the Wild West lasted into the 20th century.

Offline Macruran

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Offline Macruran

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Re: Why is the Western Fort empty, and where is the cavalry?!
« Reply #46 on: October 26, 2020, 23:58:27 »
On the larger topic of controversial etc. sets, I decided some time ago to just start letting that stuff go and concentrate on sets that I like. By the same token, I'm not a fan of any of the licensed stuff, but many enjoy them, and I have nothing positive to say about them, so I just let them pass (for the most part, sometimes I let slip some criticism). I reckon I'll do more good by promoting those things I do like - currently that means Greek mythological sets!  :roman:
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Offline GrahamB

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Re: Why is the Western Fort empty, and where is the cavalry?!
« Reply #47 on: October 27, 2020, 08:42:01 »
At that moment the ship suddenly stopped rocking and swaying, the engine pitch settled down to a gentle hum. 'Hey Ford.' said Zaphod, 'that sounds good. Have you worked out the controls on this boat?' 'No,' said Ford, 'I just stopped fiddling with them.' (With thanks to Douglas Adams)

Offline Bolingbroke

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Re: Why is the Western Fort empty, and where is the cavalry?!
« Reply #48 on: November 05, 2020, 08:22:47 »
I agree with Oliver, that the popularity of the Western in all its forms waned a lot in the past fifty years, so it makes commercial sense to focus on other, more popular themes. I am 44 years old and as a child cowboys were still quite popular in the form of toys, fancy dress costumes and so on, and we had plenty of re-runs like Rin Tin Tin, F Troop etc, as well as all the John Wayne films. Then the genre fell out of favour with children. So I understand that point.

(Then again, if we’re being honest, how many movies and shows with knights were popular in the past 30 years, with recent exceptions like GoT? And yet, PM still kept producing castles and whatnot.)

I appreciate that modern political sentiments are different compared to 40-50 years ago, and I thought it clever how they went about spinning the Western theme from four of five years ago for modern, ‘woke’ audiences, but it’s a pity that - for whatever reason - many of these sets have been discontinued. The forts and soldier designs from the 1990s especially are among my favourites. I have a ton of them, and I also use the forts in my Romans dioramas.

But what can you do, at the end of the day? Very little, I’m afraid.
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Offline Hadoque

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Re: Why is the Western Fort empty, and where is the cavalry?!
« Reply #49 on: November 30, 2020, 04:21:22 »
Of the (very) recent Westerns, I liked this one very much:
https://www.imdb.com/title/tt5478478/?ref_=nm_flmg_act_6

And this one of course, but a different kind of 'Western':
https://www.imdb.com/title/tt1663202/?ref_=fn_al_tt_1
« Last Edit: November 30, 2020, 04:31:56 by Hadoque »

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