Author Topic: Why is the Western Fort empty, and where is the cavalry?!  (Read 8803 times)

Offline Oliver

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Re: Why is the Western Fort empty, and where is the cavalry?!
« Reply #20 on: October 18, 2020, 14:15:31 »
So how do you explain that Indians are still being sold? 

As far as 'presence on the ground' of this theme, growing up, it depends not just when, but where, one grew up.

 Nowadays, the western genre appears on kids and teens' radar, everywhere, mostly via video-games; many of which are best-sellers (!), like: Red Dead Redemption ( I & II ), Hunt: Showdown, or Call of Juarez ( I thru IV ).  ...It's still there!  The other instances, are western mixed with some other genre ( usually sci-fi or fantasy ), as mentioned, like The Mandalorian recently, for example.  The archetypes of the gunslinger and of the frontier are still very much with us, still.

Also, for a boy, a 'fort' is a 'fort'.  Ultimately, beyond fleeting trend-appeal, it doesn't very much matter which theme it's from,


I think that Western Sets linger on because someone at head office likes them, and there's a feeling that 'we've always done them'. If they were huge sellers there would presumably be a full blown range.

I agree that the Western genre probably hung around longer in Continental Europe than it did in the UK -  but The Mandalorian is not aimed at children and all of the computer games you've listed at rated 18, and as such probably not being played by 6 year olds.

I agree that for a child, a fort is a fort, so why would they particularly want some very specifically designed cavalry?


Offline Oliver

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Re: Why is the Western Fort empty, and where is the cavalry?!
« Reply #21 on: October 18, 2020, 14:35:01 »
History happened, and no amount of alterations or omissions will change what was.

Actually, I'd posit that the people who are upset are the ones who don't want to know history, and the 'alterations' are removing the omissions.

Offline tahra

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Re: Why is the Western Fort empty, and where is the cavalry?!
« Reply #22 on: October 18, 2020, 14:54:37 »
The fact that people buy the soldiers in bulk proves they sell. Any proper army building set will sell in droves to collectors... and it should not really bother them WHO buys them, right?

If they want to be politically correct, can't really sell anything but SOME recent things..

However, for me, while they promote a still existing sect shamelessly, they have no moral ground for anything. Nothing in all the assortment past or present (and I hope future, cause that would be a LONG way to fall) comes near it in any way.

I'll shut up now.



Offline JPSA

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Re: Why is the Western Fort empty, and where is the cavalry?!
« Reply #23 on: October 18, 2020, 14:54:56 »
Hi Oliver.

The Mandalorian or the video-games I mentioned may not be officially aimed at kids and teens, but you can be certain they are viewing and playing them nonetheless — especially The Mandalorian ( 'Star Wars', are you kidding? )!  Ditto for Fortnite, incidentally, regarding guidance rating vs. who's actually playing them ( statistically ).

About the cavalry: it's part of the theme!  Boys don't have to have it, and they certainly can do without, but I think it would be nice for them to get acquainted with who the proper dwellers of such forts were.  It's part of the educational value.  It also maintains the cohesiveness of the theme, should one add to it with other western sets.  Also, as a parent, and a consumer, I should be able to make that choice.  Selling the fort without the occupants is plain ridiculous, imo.  Not least, because that very same fort used to be sold manned and furnished not that long ago ( + the molds already exist ).

As far as "western sets lingering because 'someone' at the head office likes them", that's pure conjecture — I'd even say fabrication. Let me guess, this hypothetical "someone at the head office" is not a Millenial? :lol: But, I digress...  Note: there are maybe 10 or so more western sets available on the German Playmobil webstore right now ( search for 'indianer' ) than on the US one, and even more on the French webstore [ no surprise to me! ], and I believe it's because they're simply selling, in those markets.  No conspiracy theory required.  ...Rumors of the death of the western genre in popular culture have been greatly exaggerated, as I hope to have indicated.  What is abundantly clear, however, is that a number of people wish it to be dead, for political reasons — and these folks would have no qualms denying the option to others, if they could.






« Last Edit: October 18, 2020, 16:29:12 by JPSA »

Offline Oliver

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Re: Why is the Western Fort empty, and where is the cavalry?!
« Reply #24 on: October 18, 2020, 16:37:16 »
The fact that people buy the soldiers in bulk proves they sell. Any proper army building set will sell in droves to collectors... and it should not really bother them WHO buys them, right?


I think that's an interesting theory - but assuming that the American Civil War Soldiers have been removed because of a fear of bad publicity (which I think it entirely possible) - then the question is do you risk tarnishing your whole brand to sell lots and lots of one set. I'll also say that I think people on here tend to imagine that adult collectors represent a much bigger part of their sales than they really do, which is why we're such a low priority.

Offline Oliver

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Re: Why is the Western Fort empty, and where is the cavalry?!
« Reply #25 on: October 18, 2020, 17:08:30 »
Hi Oliver.

The Mandalorian or the video-games I mentioned may not be officially aimed at kids and teens, but you can be certain they are viewing and playing them nonetheless — especially The Mandalorian ( 'Star Wars', are you kidding? )!  Ditto for Fortnite, incidentally, regarding guidance rating vs. who's actually playing them ( statistically ).

About the cavalry: it's part of the theme!  Boys don't have to have it, and they certainly can do without, but I think it would be nice for them to get acquainted with who the proper dwellers of such forts were.  It's part of the educational value.  It also maintains the cohesiveness of the theme, should one add to it with other western sets.  Also, as a parent, and a consumer, I should be able to make that choice.  Selling the fort without the occupants is plain ridiculous, imo.  Not least, because that very same fort used to be sold manned and furnished not that long ago ( + the molds already exist ).

As far as "western sets lingering because 'someone' at the head office likes them", that's pure conjecture — I'd even say fabrication. Let me guess, this hypothetical "someone at the head office" is not a Millenial? :lol: But, I digress...  Note: there are maybe 10 or so more western sets available on the German Playmobil webstore right now ( search for 'indianer' ) than on the US one, and even more on the French webstore [ no surprise to me! ], and I believe it's because they're simply selling, in those markets.  No conspiracy theory required.  ...Rumors of the death of the western genre in popular culture have been greatly exaggerated, as I hope to have indicated.  What is abundantly clear, however, is that a number of people wish it to be dead, for political reasons — and these folks would have no qualms denying the option to others, if they could.


Fortnite is rated PG13. That is the same as The Sims 2 was. I would be perfectly happy with a child of any age playing a game like The Sims (well, as happy as I would be with any child playing with any computer game....). I can't imagine any circumstances under which I would buy a child a game called 'Red Dead Redemption' or 'Hunt: Showdown'. I'm not going to pretend to know whether Star Wars is popular with children, I'm the exact wrong generation to have had any interest in it - but I'd say that none of these examples are aimed at children, and small children are essentially Playmobils market now.

All historical themes from Playmobil have been a random pick and mix. None of them have produced a cohesive world, and have ignored less comfortable areas.

Any thoughts on why Playmobil Head Office makes its decisions are pure conjecture - it's a private company. But the fact that they're still selling 5249 and 5245 on the German Site just makes me think they have a pile of them left over, mostly because I bought 5249 about 5 years heavily reduced, and I think they have been on the constant sale rotation since then (and the use of real boxes indicates they were made for shops, rather than the DS side).

Lets look at an totally unpolitical theme - the modern mansion 5574 and associated sets. These have been constantly available and on-sale online, which indicates to me that it was a failure rather than a raving success.

Offline StJohn

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Re: Why is the Western Fort empty, and where is the cavalry?!
« Reply #26 on: October 18, 2020, 17:30:09 »
... they're still selling 5249 and 5245 on the German Site ...

They aren't – I wish they were. There's only the empty DS fort 6427, no doubt because they're looking at a pile of unsold stock.

Offline Ismene

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Re: Why is the Western Fort empty, and where is the cavalry?!
« Reply #27 on: October 19, 2020, 00:36:08 »
There are probably several reasons why Playmobil hasn't produced much in the way of Civil War army sets for awhile, but I'd say the main reason is that they've decided that their target market doesn't care. The entire brand has moved away from realistic history themes in the past few years. I'm still mourning the loss of the Victorians (and that was ages ago). We miss historical sets as adults, but Playmobil has never catered to the adult collector market.

Offline JPSA

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Re: Why is the Western Fort empty, and where is the cavalry?!
« Reply #28 on: October 20, 2020, 05:57:20 »
Fortnite is rated PG13. That is the same as The Sims 2 was. I would be perfectly happy with a child of any age playing a game like The Sims (well, as happy as I would be with any child playing with any computer game....). I can't imagine any circumstances under which I would buy a child a game called 'Red Dead Redemption' or 'Hunt: Showdown'. I'm not going to pretend to know whether Star Wars is popular with children, I'm the exact wrong generation to have had any interest in it - but I'd say that none of these examples are aimed at children, and small children are essentially Playmobils market now.

All historical themes from Playmobil have been a random pick and mix. None of them have produced a cohesive world, and have ignored less comfortable areas.

Any thoughts on why Playmobil Head Office makes its decisions are pure conjecture - it's a private company. But the fact that they're still selling 5249 and 5245 on the German Site just makes me think they have a pile of them left over, mostly because I bought 5249 about 5 years heavily reduced, and I think they have been on the constant sale rotation since then (and the use of real boxes indicates they were made for shops, rather than the DS side).

Lets look at an totally unpolitical theme - the modern mansion 5574 and associated sets. These have been constantly available and on-sale online, which indicates to me that it was a failure rather than a raving success.


If kids weren't aware of Star Wars: The Mandalorian — a space western, if ever there as one —, Disney would not be licensing action-figures and whatnot ( including LEGO sets ), sold in the toy-isle at Walmart, in the US, including obviously kid-oriented plush toys and Halloween costumes for kids!  It's one of, if not the, most popular show on Disney+ right now.

Regarding Fortnite, I can attest from personal experience that it is very popular with tweens ( ages 9 to 12 ), and even younger ( for example, primary school kids where I live all know the little Fortnite victory dances; so they are all aware of it, if not playing it ).  That's well within Playmobil's principal target age bracket, btw ( note: age 9, according to developmental research, being the peak age for worldplay ).  That's despite the fact that the official age recommendation for Fortnite is 'Teen' ( PG-13 ) in the US, and PEGI 12 in Europe, as you pointed out.

My point about Fortnite being that the same dynamic likely applies to the popular western video-games I mentioned, regarding official parental guidance rating vs. who's actually playing them.  Also, specifying a permissible age group, like "Teen", has a perverse way of making the adjacent, younger demographic want to get their hands on it!  That's just human nature.

As far as the western comics I mentioned, which are still doing well in continental Europe, 3 of them are aimed at a younger audience ( kids and tweens ): Yakari ( Indians ), The Bluecoats ( ACW ), and Lucky Luke ( Wild West ).  The overall point being that kids and tweens are definitely aware of the western genre — and archetypes —, as a play theme, and it's not going away ( kind of like... History!  :lol: ).

As far as historical Playmobil set 'coherence', the sometimes magnificent period dioramas that can be made in, say, the medieval period, or the western era, indicate that they are very coherent — by which I meant homogeneous to the overall period ( as opposed to heterogeneous, as in 'not belonging there' ).  The period sets don't come all at once, though, but if you are patient and/or go to the second-hand market, you can indeed create nice historical reconstructions ( as seen in this forum, for ex ).  That's why selling the fort without the cavalry is in my view a dismal shame, as well as a missed opportunity for those interested ( kids and adults ) in putting together a more complete and verisimilar western 'little world'.





The Mandalorian kid's costume
( available from size 3 = age 2 to 3, on up! )
[ rifle and gun sold separately ]

« Last Edit: October 20, 2020, 13:11:35 by JPSA »

Offline JPSA

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Re: Why is the Western Fort empty, and where is the cavalry?!
« Reply #29 on: October 20, 2020, 06:29:10 »
There are probably several reasons why Playmobil hasn't produced much in the way of Civil War army sets for awhile, but I'd say the main reason is that they've decided that their target market doesn't care. The entire brand has moved away from realistic history themes in the past few years. I'm still mourning the loss of the Victorians (and that was ages ago). We miss historical sets as adults, but Playmobil has never catered to the adult collector market.


Hi Ismene.  Theme appeal is cyclical.  One time it's Victorian, then Western, then back to Greek Mythology ( coming right-up in 2021! ), etc.  People get bored quickly, but history is finite.  Sometimes, all it takes is an unexpected hit, often a twist on an old theme, like Harry Potter or Percy Jackson, and all of the sudden, what was once considered 'passé', or boring, becomes cool again.

Regarding the western theme ( civil war or not ), specifically, from what I gathered, there has definitely been a deliberate suppression of at least some of the sets ( or parts thereof ) in recent years, for political reasons, irrespective of debatable appeal.  That's what I find objectionable.
« Last Edit: October 20, 2020, 08:02:26 by JPSA »