Why is the Western Fort empty, and where is the cavalry?!

[Ismene]

Hi Ismene.  Theme appeal is cyclical.  One time it's Victorian, then Western, then back to Greek Mythology ( coming right-up in 2021! ), etc.  People get bored quickly, but history is finite.  Sometimes, all it takes is an unexpected hit, often a twist on an old theme, like Harry Potter or Percy Jackson, and all of the sudden, what was once considered 'passé', or boring, becomes cool again.

Theme appeal might be cyclical, but Playmobil isn't; and frankly their business strategy has seemed erratic since they lost the old leadership. Plus they've never been on the ball with trends. If they make a theme for a trend, they release it five years too late. We're not talking L*go here.

[JPSA]

Theme appeal might be cyclical, but Playmobil isn't; and frankly their business strategy has seemed erratic since they lost the old leadership. Plus they've never been on the ball with trends. If they make a theme for a trend, they release it five years too late. We're not talking L*go here.

I can't speak about recent changes in Geobra's management, as I haven't been following its evolution over the years ( though I have definitely gotten an unpleasant whiff of political correctness, of late ).  However, I think Playmobil not following trends, for the most part, is a good thing, and contributes to making them a reliable, if conservative, value. 

Regarding trends, the thing is, from a kid's perspective, the world is new — because he or she was essentially born "yesterday"; which means that kids are capable of developing an interest, sometimes even a fascination, for literally anything you put in front of them ( Okay, maybe not math! Although... ) — if given the opportunity!!

For example, buy a 6 year old Victorian sets, and stories, and they'll make a world out of it.  Back to the Western genre, there is nothing intrinsic about that theme that would make it unappealing to a kid ( especially to a boy ), given sufficient exposure.  Heck, I recently got my 11 year old other nephew into Prince Valiant comics ( from the 1940s! ) — and he LOVES it!  Prince Valiant is his new hero now.    The Bluecoats ( ACW ), and Lucky Luke are up next ( among many other things; not just western, of course )!

Trend appeal is more something that is imposed from the outside — by marketers — so that manufacturers can keep selling different iterations, with sometimes very minor tweaks, of basically the same thing ( 'Got to amortize them molds! ☺).  Ex: "Kids, forget about the Spy Team Commander truck ( which you got for Christmas merely 2 years ago ), ask for the NEW Galaxy Police truck instead!"  ...Yet, 'a fort is a fort is a fort' or in this case 'an [armored] truck is a truck is a truck' — especially when it is THE EXACT SAME TRUCK, but with a different paint job! ...Sorry, Geobra, I don't care what my nephew says, I am not buying him the GP truck, in addition to the Spy Team one!  ( ...But I might be amenable to getting him the cavalry, to go with the fort!  ).

Classic historical themes, though, besides their permanence ( meaning, for ex: Western sets will be good forever, ditto for classic medieval sets, but 'Novelmore', or even 'Ghostbusters', are ephemeral trends: there for 2-3 years, and then gone, or dead ), have the additional merit of opening an educational window into history; and that, can become a jumping off point for kids to want to read comics and books about the period, watch shows ( with Dad or Uncle! ), etc.  ...Cultural enrichment.

Note: Compare Playmobil to Lego's overall strategy.  The Thundercats-inspired 'Legends of Chima' theme lasted, what, 4 years?  I believe the next sword and planet theme after that, 'Nexo Knights', lasted even less: 3 years!!!  Meanwhile, consumers ( parents and kids ) are placed on a treadmill, trying to keep up with the latest trend.  For example, little Tommy was delighted to get the Chima castle for his 7th birthday, but 2or 3 years later, his little brother, now 7, wants the Nexo Knight castle instead — even though they fulfill essentially the same purpose, play-wise!  So the Chima sets are sold off, or simply forgotten.  There is another phrase for 'trendiness': 'planned obsolescence'! ☺ Compare that to giving Tommy a classic medieval castle, and his brother a different set ( maybe even another castle if parents have the money ) also from the classic medieval line: this way, the world gets bigger, and siblings can speak the same 'language' — and maybe learn something about history, too!  That's value.

[Janilew]

I can't speak about recent changes in Geobra's management, as I haven't been following its evolution over the years ( though I have definitely gotten an unpleasant whiff of political correctness, of late ).  However, I think Playmobil not following trends is a good thing, and contributes to making them a reliable, if conservative, value. 

Regarding trends, the thing is, from a kid's perspective, the world is new, because he or she was essentially born "yesterday"; which means that kids are capable of developing an interest, sometimes even a fascination, for literally anything you put in front of them ( Okay, maybe not math! Although... ) — if given the opportunity!!

For example, buy a 6 year old Victorian sets, and stories, and they'll make a world out of it.  To come back to the Western genre, there is nothing intrinsic about that theme that would make it unappealing to a kid ( especially to a boy ), given sufficient exposure.  Heck, I recently got my 11 year old other nephew into Prince Valiant comics ( from the 40s! ) — and he LOVES it!  Prince Valiant is his new hero now.    The Bluecoats ( ACW ), and Lucky Luke are coming up next ( among many other things; not just western, of course )!

The trend thing is more something that is imposed from the outside — by marketers — so that manufacturers can keep selling different iterations, with sometimes very minor tweaks, of basically the same thing ( 'Got to amortize them molds! ☺).  Ex: "Kids, forget about the Spy Team Commander truck ( which you got for Christmas merely 2 years ago ), ask for the NEW Galaxy Police truck instead!"  ...Yet, 'a fort is a fort is a fort' or in this case 'an [armored] truck is a truck is a truck' — especially when it is THE EXACT SAME TRUCK! ...Sorry, Geobra, I don't care what my nephew says, I am not buying him the GP truck, in addition to the Spy Team one! ( ...But I might be amenable to getting him the cavalry, to go with the fort!  ).

Funny, I first found out about Prince Valiant through Alex from Super 4, particularly how he follows the same tropes as Valiant.

And I whole-heartedly agree with you! Kids aren't affected by trends like older people are unless they are convinced/made to. Otherwise, you can show them something from 50 years ago, and they could still show just as much interest as the kids from back then. That's why I try to show kids less mainstream stuff like Disney and the like, and encourage more original ideas and play. Or at the very least more obscure ones. I remember when I showed one of my younger cousins non-Disney based fairytale books and they'd ask, "where's (insert character here)?"

Siiiiiigh 

[JPSA]

That's why I try to show kids less mainstream stuff like Disney and the like, and encourage more original ideas and play.

That's my policy too!  In fact, I am so fed-up with compulsory politically-correct — aka. "woke" — messaging ( indoctrination ), these days, that I have recently decided to not buy my nephews any media content ( fiction books, comics, and shows ) produced past 1990 — with few, curated exceptions ( like Harry Potter )!  Also, there is more than enough outstanding works produced up until the cutoff, to last a kid's childhood + adolescence.  ...Strictly classics it will be from here on ( from me, anyway )!  Like you, I also think it's nice to expose kids to things that are now out of the mainstream / non-trendy.  It gives them a 'differential advantage'.  Ex: Before Prince Valiant, I got one nephew into Tintin comics.  He absolutely LOVED them, and got all his school friends into them!

In a way, non-trendiness is part of what makes Playmobil special.  For the most part, they march to the beat of their own drum.  Could it be that this is precisely where the value lies?


P.S. I discovered Prince Valiant fairly recently too, and I was floored at the quality of the illustrations and storytelling.  Hal Foster absolutely nailed it, in terms of providing a source of inspiring, traditional, male role-modeling to boys.  Note: Prince Valiant was also a major source of inspiration in Lou Scheimer's ( Filmation's founder ) rendition of He-Man.  It was his favorite comic growing up, according to his biography.

[Janilew]

Ahhh Tin Tin. I've never anything other than that 2011 movie, which was really good! When I have kids, I'm keeping mainstream to a minimum. I want them to enjoy making their own stories in addition to loving those of others.

[Ismene]

Playmobil used to beat to its own drum, but that's declining with its sudden surge of licensed sets and named characters. Much like L*go actually, the sets used to be more open-ended.

As for today's children, I can't seem to garner any interest for sets that aren't animals. My niece is fine poking my Victorians and knights, but she won't take them home (she did want an Alpine cow though - I felt bad for saying no, but that was my cow). Last week she left a L*go Neville Longbottom on the coffee table that my father bought for her because she was done with it (and she loves Harry Potter, but you know, it's not a dragon). I haven't dared to buy her any large buildings because that too will end up here with me.
My youngest cousin is the same way. If it's not an animal, why does it even exist? 

[JPSA]

As for today's children, I can't seem to garner any interest for sets that aren't animals.  My niece is fine poking my Victorians and knights, but she won't take them home. . . .

...How about fairies?  That's open-ended and blends well with the princess' castle.

Note:  I thought the Playmobil Easter bunnies theme was great!  I wish they had continued the trend and came up with dog-headed klickies, teddy-bear headed klickies, skunk-headed klickies, etc.  ...Basically, Playmobil's answer to Calico critters — which area adorable!

Calico Critters

[Macruran]

Okay.  1800, + or - roughly 70 years, for most of it ( i.e. majority of major armed conflicts between western settlers + Cavalry and Indians, commonly though of as 'Cowboys and Indians' in popular culture ).  It is still 150 years ago, or so ( 6 generations ), for most of it!  Well past the "DO NOT SELL UNTIL" period, imo.

I'm going to hold firm on my rejection of your dates. Yes, the conflict was mostly over by 1850...EAST of the Mississippi. West of the Mississippi the fighting went on until just into the twentieth century. Take a look at the wars listed here: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/American_Indian_Wars#West_of_the_Mississippi_(1811%E2%80%931924) - that's not a trivial amount of conflict. Sure, the demographics and technology meant by that point there was no hope of Indian victory, so the conflict was "over" in that sense, but the fighting was clearly still going on. "Ended just over a hundred years ago" - this is the case.

[tahra]

My GREAT knowledge of the before, after and during the civil war is mostly from the North And South trilogy - the 3rd book goes into the west, against the indians, and is indeed AFTER the Civil war..

[Indianna]

I'm going to hold firm on my rejection of your dates. . . . 

Macruran actually lives in the American West (were you also born there, Mac?) so we should heed his words because he is correct about the historical timeline.  I would also suggest checking out the discussion raised by Macruran here: Karl May's influence on Playmobil.  I always noticed the mish-mash of American Indian cultures in Playmobil, so the Karl May idea makes a lot of sense to me.

I, myself, was born in Portland, Oregon many moons ago and lived there until young adult-hood.  I wanted to weigh in on this thread partly to support what Macruran has been saying about the historical timeline and partly to correct the idea that the western theme doesn't appeal to girls.  It does. At least to one girl who is now a senior citizen. 

I grew up watching all the western-themed TV shows of the day plus the syndicated re-reruns of older shows.  I loved them and spent many hours in front of the TV soaking in Hollywood's idea of cowboys, indians, lawmen, outlaws, and soldiers of the 19th century American West.  I also engaged in a lot of imaginary play with my own western-themed toys (twin six-guns in a holster, chaps, cowboy hat, bow & arrows with suction-cup tips, head-dresses with feathers, etc.)  As a young teen I got to ride horses, visit family friends on farms with all the stereotypical farm animals, and I even got to do target shooting (pistol, rifle, and bow & arrow.) 

There was a lot of material in those old westerns that one might consider to be offensive or insensitive today.  In addition to the ways in which American Indians, Latinos, Asians, etc. were portrayed, the portrayal of women is also problematic as most of them seem to be sex workers.    On the other hand, most of these shows promoted a sense of justice, honesty, and fair play as the bad guys always lost.  When my kids were young, some of the first Playmobil I bought was to play some of the elements of the "Little House" books that were so much a part of my husband's childhood.  When we read those books aloud to our young kids, we edited out the bad stuff, such as Ma Ingalls saying, "The only good indian is a dead indian."  As the years went by we were able to use those negatives as "teachable moments" to show our kids the error in that kind of thinking.  The deficiencies in Playmobil, or any other toy, can still be used as teachable moments by thoughtful adults to promote positive discussion with young children.

I do feel, though, that it's very reasonable for Playmobil to stop making Confederate soldiers and flags or people in chains. Even though the ACW ended over 150 years ago, it still resonates today in the US.  Can anyone think of another example of the losing side of a war being allowed to fly their flag and raise statues to their generals?  Ridiculous, IMHO.  Most Germans would probably not take kindly to a Nazi-themed toy line either. 

. . . . the thing is, from a kid's perspective, the world is new — because he or she was essentially born "yesterday"; which means that kids are capable of developing an interest, sometimes even a fascination, for literally anything you put in front of them . . . .

Which is exactly why we should be careful about what we do put in front of them. Adult collectors may enjoy making great armies and staging famous battle scenes, but that sort of thing is not good creative play for young children.  I'd like to see less emphasis on conflict in Playmobil toys and more on day-to-day life.  I'd also like to see less of the blue/pink division of the genders. 

Note to JPSA: I also loved Prince Valiant as a kid, despite being a girl  .  I read it in the full-color Sunday funny papers every week.