Author Topic: pirates - playmobil vs. lego - how to win  (Read 5704 times)

Offline cachalote

  • x
  • Playmo Master
  • *****
  • Posts: 1896
  • Gender: Male
pirates - playmobil vs. lego - how to win
« on: April 08, 2015, 17:00:19 »
:lens: playmobil’s revenue equals 1/6 of lego’s (550 vs. 3400 million euros).
:!: the only way to beat this odds is to come up with better ideas.
compared with the cost of advertising or the cost of a new factory, ideas come cheap.
:) but the potential in sales they represent has no limits.

:'( in the past playmobil was almost always behind lego presenting new ideas to “fill” the pirates theme.

playmobil started earlier (1978) than lego (1989) but lego soon turned out with a quantity (and quality) of “things” giving playmobil a hard time to compete.

:captain: the pirates theme (not just lego’s and playmobil’s) is made by a sum of several strong iconographic items.
information is scarce so most of the image a pirate has nowadays is largely a result of representations that started in the xix century.

some of them were used by both companies to “make” their pirate worlds - as a journey to www.klickypedia.com and www.brickset.com helps to see.

    honni soit qui mal y pense

Offline cachalote

  • x
  • Playmo Master
  • *****
  • Posts: 1896
  • Gender: Male
Re: pirates - playmobil vs. lego - how to win
« Reply #1 on: April 08, 2015, 17:05:45 »
lego seems to have done a better job so far:
- 1st pirate island, 6280, in 1989 (playmo 3799 in 1991);
- 1st raft, 6527, 1989 (playmo 3793, 1990);
- 1st “skull” island, 6279, 1995 (playmo 4443, 2008);
- 1st soldiers fort, 6276, 1989 (playmo 3112, 2001);
- 1st ruin as a “useful” building, 1492, 1992 (playmo 6146, 2014);
- 1st “spanish” soldiers, 6249, 1997 (playmo 4294, 2007);
- 1st dinghy/tender, 6267, 1991 (playmo 4444, 2008)
- 1st exotic island / islanders, 1788, 1995 (playmo 5134, 2011, with no islanders);
- 1st solitary / castaway island, 1481, 1991 (3861, 1996)
- 1st mix of pirates / soldiers sets 6270, 1989 (playmo 3859, 1996)
- 1st solo imperial boat (small) 6274, 1989 (big) 6271, 1992 (enormous) 10210, 2010 (playmo just did a schooner, 2730, 1991)

even in small details (the ones that end up “fulfilling” a set’s atmosphere) lego came almost always first:
- 1st skeletons, 6254, 1995 (playmo 3939, 2000)
- 1st prison doors with bars, 6270, 1089 (playmo 3859, 1996);
- 1st palm trees, 6270, 1989 (playmo 3799, 1991)
- 1st monkeys, 6325, 1989, sharks, 6527, 1989, parrots, 6270, 1989 (playmo 3750, 1990 / 3736, 1992, 3750, 1990);
- 1st small boats with cannons 6245, 1989 (playmo 5137, 2011)
- 1st dock cranes, 6273, 1991 (playmo 3112, 2001);
- 1st wooden palisade, 6249, 1997 (playmo 4443, 2008)
- 1st wooden deck, 6273, 1991 (playmo 312, 2001

strangely playmobil also comes late on subjects that a lot of collectors tend do dislike:
- redcoats on boats instead of sailors, 6274, 1989 (playmo 5140, 2011)
- printed skull and bones on sails, 6261, 1992 (playmo 3133, 2003)
    honni soit qui mal y pense

Offline cachalote

  • x
  • Playmo Master
  • *****
  • Posts: 1896
  • Gender: Male
Re: pirates - playmobil vs. lego - how to win
« Reply #2 on: April 08, 2015, 17:09:52 »
:) sometimes small things are “even”:
- playmobil never introduced crocodiles, lego missed the turtles;

rarely, playmobil wins in great ideas or details:
- 1st wreck as part of a dwelling, 6253, 2009 (lego 4136, 2007)
- 1st schooner, 3740, 1991 (lego 6268, 1993)

but playmobil wins when things get to small for lego:
- crabs, 3861, 1999;
- seagulls, 3112, 2001


:hmm: things don’t seem to great to our side, it’s true.
:) but something happened this year.
:o lego came up with no novelties in its sets.

lego missed stays and has lost its momentum.

(o.k, o.k. lego’s  pirate chess board is great but it’s not a “classic” set.)
    honni soit qui mal y pense

Offline cachalote

  • x
  • Playmo Master
  • *****
  • Posts: 1896
  • Gender: Male
Re: pirates - playmobil vs. lego - how to win
« Reply #3 on: April 08, 2015, 17:12:21 »
it’s time for playmobil to take advantage.

:) this is what I suggest.

     this is a pirate competition so there are really no rules.
     playmobil should start by copying all of lego’s good ideas that are still “untouched”:
- the walking plank;
- the introduction of “exotic” islanders in the theme (they already exist solo);
- the enormous royal navy ship;

historical errors are not difficult to avoid.
all playmobil designers have to do is to buy all of osprey books and adult collectors will get happy:
- no more soldiers manning boats – a job for sailors;
- new (real) add-on sailor sets to replace crews od soldiers.

     small is beautiful and lego can’t go that little:
- fill every pirate set with animals (seagulls, pelicans, parrots, dogs, cats, rats, goats)
- fill every pirate set with food and drinks (and bottles and dishes and spoons and knives)

     small doesn´t mean less parts:
- big ships need to have more than a crew of 3 (7 would be a start);
- all ships need real string rigging and all the things that go with it.

     finally, keep the “building” pressure on lego.
- start to do modular interlocking sets with removable parts;
- ancient ds sets like 7339/40/41 can show the way;
- modern safari 59… sets help do this;
- an “attachment” to the ds 7718 pirate island (that is missing one “side” could be the 1st try.
- system-x has already some “attach-ground” capabilities, use it.
    honni soit qui mal y pense

Offline Rasputin

  • The Mad Monk
  • Playmo Master
  • *****
  • Posts: 9634
  • Gender: Male
Re: pirates - playmobil vs. lego - how to win
« Reply #4 on: April 08, 2015, 20:20:23 »
How to win? Sell your soul to the devil (AKA corporate America) it's easy

Its like comparing a "house wife" to a "prostitute" big difference

If you hear the sound of the bell which will tell you that Grigori has been killed, if it was your relations who have wrought my death, then no one in the family will remain alive. They will be killed by the Russian people. :prays:

Offline GrahamB

  • Moderator
  • Playmo Master
  • *****
  • Posts: 3445
  • Gender: Male
    • Playmofanatic
Re: pirates - playmobil vs. lego - how to win
« Reply #5 on: April 08, 2015, 20:32:24 »
This is a really interesting comparison between the two manufacturer's toy pirate worlds. I was struck by how many similarities there are (even if PM's versions lagged a few years behind...)- and surprised by the lack of 'plank to be walked' in the PM range. Your arguments for an extension of the PM Pirates range seem logical and well reasoned.

Surely there were PM dinghies earlier than 2008?

I am sure the interest in the pirate theme has been fuelled (at least for children!) by various books and films- Peter Pan, Hook, Pirates of the Carribbean, etc. Though these fictional pirates are scary enough, I think real pirates must have been (and still are) very unpleasant people!
At that moment the ship suddenly stopped rocking and swaying, the engine pitch settled down to a gentle hum. 'Hey Ford.' said Zaphod, 'that sounds good. Have you worked out the controls on this boat?' 'No,' said Ford, 'I just stopped fiddling with them.' (With thanks to Douglas Adams)

Offline Ismene

  • Playmo Master
  • *****
  • Posts: 2425
  • Gender: Female
Re: pirates - playmobil vs. lego - how to win
« Reply #6 on: April 08, 2015, 21:11:03 »
The two things Playmobil does better than Lego are aesthetics and historical details (when they choose to implement them). I think they need to cultivate the visually-appealing and educational aspects to distinguish themselves from other toy companies out there.

Offline Macruran

  • desperate but not serious
  • Moderator
  • Playmo Master
  • *****
  • Posts: 3780
  • Gender: Male
  • Hiya!
    • my incomplete collection spreadsheet
Re: pirates - playmobil vs. lego - how to win
« Reply #7 on: April 09, 2015, 06:45:27 »
I appreciate your detailed analysis cachalote. A lot of work went into that.

The two things Playmobil does better than Lego are aesthetics and historical details (when they choose to implement them). I think they need to cultivate the visually-appealing and educational aspects to distinguish themselves from other toy companies out there.

This is becoming ever more plain with passing years. Instead of trying to ape L*go, PM needs to own its strengths. L*go has bitten the licensing apple, bigtime. Great. Let them have Star Wars and Harry Potter. PM already has LUTHER, and REMBRANDT, and MARCO POLO, and proper redcoats, and ACW, and Victorians, and Eskimos, and Romans...go real, go historical, go accurate.

On the other hand the pretty horses seem to be doing well.
"We like things in little." - G. Stein  
 :roman:

Offline cachalote

  • x
  • Playmo Master
  • *****
  • Posts: 1896
  • Gender: Male
Re: pirates - playmobil vs. lego - how to win
« Reply #8 on: April 09, 2015, 11:23:55 »
Its like comparing a "house wife" to a "prostitute" big difference

i'm not sure lego will love the comparison...  :-[
    honni soit qui mal y pense

Offline cachalote

  • x
  • Playmo Master
  • *****
  • Posts: 1896
  • Gender: Male
Re: pirates - playmobil vs. lego - how to win
« Reply #9 on: April 09, 2015, 11:57:55 »
:) as this is about the pirates theme, ripping-off lego's good ideas doesn't seem that awkward...

but you are right - playmobil has its conceptual strenghts and should use them.
but sometimes they seem to forget.

or to remember too much well...

:-[ before i saw howard pyle's illustrations - http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Howard_Pyle - i must confess i thought that playmobil produced a "crowd" of black and white and grey and red pirates over the years (3794, 3936, 4156, 4219, 4293, 4443, 4581, 4776, 4964, 4965, 5020...) because their designers were somehow colorblind (o.k., and lacked imagination and were lazy and didn't did their research ...).

but that was unfair - they simply tried too much to stay faithful to the original pirates image.
the only problem was that they tried for too long and forgot to present their own vision.

:) and in the pirate world, anything goes.
    honni soit qui mal y pense