ACW History becoming one sided

[Rasputin]

So due to a discussion in the pcc, I will stay clear of the cross topic I had a look at the new round of western sets. I was interested in the flags in specific. In the past Geobra made in my opinion a more balance representation of history from both sides of the civil war. The reason I say more balance is if you take a look in the DB for your self you (or at least I did) will notice something. Out of all the sets in that theme there are 17 sets that have a Union side flag and from the Confederate side....   1 ( unless I am missing something but I check again and again). One lonely flag is hardly balanced. Now for some reason today Geobra decided to not even have one. The new batch of sets has 2 from the Union side and 0 from the south. When the new batch came out I felt the need to be patient as many times Geobra does not release all the sets at once and again this was true. A second new batch of westerners appeared, 3 add-on south, 3 add-on natives, etc....and yet not one flag from the south? I guess they also did not have wagons and cannons either anymore.  Flags in my opinion are the army's way of advertising and with out them they are not an army. Its has no meaning if you do not distinguish the different sides with a banner/flag. They are just people w/guns and no cause.

Now why does Geobra find it necessary to advertise the north so heavily but not the south. You can not have one with out the other. If you do not include the south symbol then do not include the north's. It not history, again  it becomes propaganda    where is the "education" in that?   

Oh and the one lonely south flag they did use was the 2nd version

and Tim can tell you all about the major historical inaccuracy's with regards to the Natives

[Hadoque]

Here we go again... 
If you hadn't been around on the forum for a long time, I'd think you are a troll. 

So, this time not the Alpine mountain-cross is the propaganda in your opinion, but the US (Union) soldiers in the Western sets and the disproportinate lack of their Confederate counterparts, or their flags. 


There are about 2 to 3  popular (though not allways politically/historically correct) views about US soldiers in the Wild West-theme, especially with kids playing cowboys & indians in their backyard;

1. US soldiers coming to the aid of civilians in distress, which are being robbed by bandits
2. US soldiers coming to the aid of civilians in distress, by fighting off attacking Indians
(I'm European and ''Indian'' is what we here have called the native populations of the Americas for the past hundreds of centuries, so please excuse me for not calling them Native Americans as a politically-correct US-citizen now should do)
3. US soldiers fighting each other during the US Civil War


During the 1970s and 1980s, Playmobil's soldier-part ot the Western-theme was focused towards 1. and 2.

During the 1990s, Playmobil's soldier-part ot the Western-theme was focused towards 3.

During the 2000s, there was no Playmobil Western-theme.

At the start of the 2010s, Playmobil's soldier-part of the Western-theme is apparantly again more focused towards 1. and 2, though they offer a Confederate soldiers Add-on set in their DS-assortment.


The above should explain your observed lack of enough Confederate flags.

Btw, in Europe, the Secession of Confederate States is still often considered as associated with slavery in the US.
It is also often considered linked with (Neo)Nazism, racism and the ''Cuckoo Clan''-folks.
How much this could be a contributing factor in the lack of more Confederate flags in Playmobil sets, you should ask Geobra directly.

[tahra]

Oh and the one lonely south flag they did use was the 2nd version

That could be because most people wouldn't know the first one...

There are about 2 to 3  popular (though not allways politically/historically correct) views about US soldiers in the Wild West-theme, especially with kids playing cowboys & indians in their backyard;

You're right regarding the "scenarios" - EVERYONE (well, at least my age  ) played cowboys and indians (I don't call them native americans either  )  -  the "adventure" movies of our time were full of bad indians and heroic cowboys and soldiers (the cavalry!)... 

Seeing the indians as the victims of "our" "progress" is a more modern thing.

Btw, in Europe, the Secession of Confederate States is still often considered as associated with slavery in the US.
It is also often considered linked with (Neo)Nazism, racism and the ''Cuckoo Clan''-folks.

I have to confess I never questioned the reasons or the just cause of the north before North And South.


Won't go into the "religion sets" either. 

[cowabounga]

Yep! The Confederate are the bad guys from our European point of view. They were slavers and the Union fought slavery. That's what we learn here at school anyway.
About the flags, I can make you some sketches, Ras. Just send me a pic and you'll get free Photoshopped designs for your (evil) Confederates! 

[Rhalius]

I am quite neutral about who where good and bad. The victor writes history after all.
While slavery was certainly not a good thing, it did still take a very long time before black people where generally accepted as equals through the United States.
Aside from not enslaving them anymore, many blacks where still treated just the same.

But regardless of all that, I am very positive that especially in America there would be great interest in having both Northern and Southern soldiers while in Europe that interest would be a whole lot less. I dont think they ever told me about the american civil war in school. Then again I dont remember them telling me about the succesor states, Alexander the Great, Carthage, the invasions of the Huns and Mongols, etc.

Either way, I think it would be good if they would skip forts and soldiers for once with the western theme. Why does there need to be a new fort in each new batch? So much other stuff to focus on instead of soldiers. Trains, farms, bandits, towns, gold seekers, indians, Mexicans, etc..

[el jefe]

Well, I guess for accuracy I would like to see the Confederate flag, that being said, the southern flag to many represents slavery and hatred.  Something a toy company might not want to deal with historically accurate or not.  I don't believe the "southern pride" thing when it comes to the confederate flag either.  The confederacy was only around about four years and they were trying to leave the U.S.  Not too much heritage there to be proud of. 

[Rasputin]

thank you for the elaborate explanation Hadoque  it was quite informative

Tahra, what you do not want a mental thrashing   

.
About the flags, I can make you some sketches, Ras. Just send me a pic and you'll get free Photoshopped designs for your (evil) Confederates! 

Thank you very much, when I get more time for playmobil I may just do that, thanks

I am quite neutral about who where good and bad. The victor writes history after all.
While slavery was certainly not a good thing, it did still take a very long time before black people where generally accepted as equals through the United States.
Aside from not enslaving them anymore, many blacks where still treated just the same.


Either way, I think it would be good if they would skip forts and soldiers for once with the western theme. Why does there need to be a new fort in each new batch? So much other stuff to focus on instead of soldiers. Trains, farms, bandits, towns, gold seekers, indians, Mexicans, etc..

Yes, the victors sure do get to write history however they want need it to be written. I read now that computers are around historians are having serious troubles and concerns. 

I unfortunately see "it" to this day from all ethnic groups. It seems people love to hate each other 

I agree that it would be great to have themes with more common folk, seeing as they are the majority. The world is not populated with soldiers on every corner. How about releasing the prototype Chinese camp full of railway workers, now that would go over well 

Well, I guess for accuracy I would like to see the Confederate flag, that being said, the southern flag to many represents slavery and hatred.  Something a toy company might not want to deal with historically accurate or not.  I don't believe the "southern pride" thing when it comes to the confederate flag either.  The confederacy was only around about four years and they were trying to leave the U.S.  Not too much heritage there to be proud of. 

That is why for historical relevance and PR Geobra could have used the first version of the South's flag. It does not seem to stimulate the same responce if anybody even could recognize/identify it. It was not a koo koo cult symbol and the neo nuts did not use it either as far as I know.

[bonniebeth]

I live in Louisiana, and yes, people fly confederate flags as a symbol of racial hatred.  When I see a confederate flag flying, I think exactly as hadoque said, that the person is possibly a KKK member or neo-nazi, or at least has those same prejudices. True, the war wasn't really about slavery; that was simply an issue that brought the argument over states' rights to a head. But it is definitely associated in the minds of people today with slavery and racial hatred and the confederate flag has become a symbol of such thinking. So it seems you get upset saying they are promoting "propoganda" for religious intolerance, then you are offended by "propoganda" for racial tolerance.

That said, I can still see playmobil producing such a flag, for the sake of having confederates for the yankees to fight. That would make sense. But as hadoque also pointed out, who says this theme is about the civil war? These could just be US cavalry soldiers.

[Baron Marshall]

Best use of the Stars and Bars is on the roof of the General Lee in the Dukes of Hazzard... the show, not the movie 

[Pynedor]

But as hadoque also pointed out, who says this theme is about the civil war? These could just be US cavalry soldiers.

I usually assume that that's what they were - soldiers from the late nineteenth century. I never associated the forts much with the Civil War.