PlaymoFriends
General => Brainstorming For Playmobil => Topic started by: cachalote on March 23, 2015, 13:26:33
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as i was the one who gave sylvia the idea for this thread, i think i should also be allowed to present another aproach. ;)
instead of trying to convince playmobil of our ideas, we can build them ourselves. 8}
just look at this - http://www.alibaba.com/product-detail/custom-playmobil-toys-collection-minifigures-action_1904583741.html :o
we can make a minimum quantity of 100 figures and i think we can make a 1 dollar/euro deal with a little bargaining. ;D
as they are not meant to be sold, all copyright issues geobra could mention would be pointless. :-[
so, who's on this with me.all we need to do is to start with one we all like. :)
o.k. that will never happen - we will never come to an agreement. :hmm:
i would like a pirate, most of you won't.
nice try, though. :'(
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I don't understand what they are selling - starting to read, I thought they made their own figures. But those are horrif combinations of existing parts.. so.... What do they do?
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they do whatever you want. :)
it seems thay are just combinig official parts but no - they actually produce all parts of the figures and accessories themselves.
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they do whatever you want. :)
it seems thay are just combinig official parts but no - they actually produce all parts of the figures and accessories themselves.
You mean they did those.... strange... combinations themselves? Very very poor choice to advertise.
Did you actually see a part they produced?
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they do whatever you want. :)
it seems thay are just combinig official parts but no - they actually produce all parts of the figures and accessories themselves.
In which case they are surely guilty of copyright violation and trade mark violation as they have used Playmobil's name.
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yes - THEY are. ;)
WE would be just naif buyers that know nothing on the subject. :-[
nobody in this side of the border would need to go to jail...
... i think ::)
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I highly doubt Alibaba fakes would be anywhere near the quality desired.
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I highly doubt Alibaba fakes would be anywhere near the quality desired.
That's what I thought until I bought a few LXXX minifigs...the printing is perfect even at that scale..... The plastic they use are no longer like those old HK plastic toys
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Well I am very curious since they also list that the can make leblon sized figures for about $10 each
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I am inclined to join the venture just to see what will happen. ;D
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What sort of pirate? it would depend... Francis Drake was a pirate and could be a good test of capabilities if done up properly.
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Well I am very curious since they also list that the can make leblon sized figures for about $10 each
Really?!
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i knew it - there's nothing like a little suggestion of ilegality to make things work. :)
we could start by deciding that it will be a seafaring figure.
who's in favor?
against?
approved by unanimity (pirates have their own interpretation of democracy).
i have some portuguese candidates besides francis drake (a great idea).
"we" were the ones that went farther into the unknown sea back in the 15th and 16th century, so i start with the 1st one - gil eanes - http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Gil_Eanes
he was the first to sail beyond cape bojador, a place believed to be populated by monsters and also believed to be the end of the sea (boats would fall down to a void as if it was the end of a chart).
i think that whoever gets chosen, he (or she) should be the "owner" of a powerful iconographic image
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I really don't see the interest in creating a bootleg figure.... If (big IF) the quality is acceptable, the interest would be for some specific parts that really don't exist, not a complete figure..
For example, the booted speedo legs would be of interest, before playmobil FINALLY made them (only the gods MAY know why it took them forever to do so).
A large klicky could be different.. but that is a whole different "realm".
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Well that guy is fabulous... do you have one made up in playmobil form already? I would suspect that would be the easiest way for the production to be done right would be to provide pictures of exactly what was wanted... of course my interest is mostly in what sort of quality these would be.
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http://www.alibaba.com/product-detail/Custom-resin-wholesale-playmobil-toys_1432158763.html
Here is the link to the leblon sized one
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Here is the link to the leblon sized one
Thanks!
Ah.. 500... Not doable. And again, they show existing ones..
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come on tahra, we've all heard your concerns about quality. :)
this is something we can do for fun - we (at least i) am not interested in producing playmobil-quality figures.
that's what playmobil already does.
what i thought was that a try in producing one - a kind of prototype - would be a funny adventure.
if, in the end, we could surpass playmobil designers creating a new figure that everybody would want, the fun would be even greater.
instead of simply giving them ideas we could just say - here's one, we want 5.000 just like it but with better quality, please.
yes, a special release with a cocktail in zirndorf would be welcome (and fair) and one month to produce the figures is acceptable. ;D
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another proposal.
bartolomeu dias, the first navigator to reach the southern tip of africa in 1488 (and thus entering the indian ocean coming from the south).
(regardless of the error in the sextant) there is already a lego custom of him. ;)
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I am listening, keep going........
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I wonder how the PCC would view members having bootleg figures made.
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I wonder how the PCC would view members having bootleg figures made.
It's just for fun
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It will all end in court. Remember PlayBig? And they didn't use Geobra's name.
I do like the figure ideas though. Portuguese explorers is a great theme!
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I wonder how the PCC would view members having bootleg figures made.
I am perfectly willing to let playmobil make a custom figure for me if they will tell me how many I need to order and how much it will cost. And if 4 or 5 other members commissioned specials that could be sold as exclusives then we'd get a nice batch of custom figures an likely break even on commissioning them in the first place.
As for ordering from these Chinese companies... I'm not inclined to, but if someone else was going to, I'd like to know/ see how they come out.
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It will all end in court. Remember PlayBig? And they didn't use Geobra's name.
I do like the figure ideas though. Portuguese explorers is a great theme!
One difference
Play big is for profit
For fun is not for profit
I can make an iPhone all day long, I just can not sell it.
"Fair use and fair dealing
Main articles: Fair use and Fair dealing
Copyright does not prohibit all copying or replication. In the United States, the fair use doctrine, codified by the Copyright Act of 1976 as 17 U.S.C. Section 107, permits some copying and distribution without permission of the copyright holder or payment to same. The statute does not clearly define fair use, but instead gives four non-exclusive factors to consider in a fair use analysis. Those factors are:
the purpose and character of one's use
the nature of the copyrighted work
what amount and proportion of the whole work was taken, and
the effect of the use upon the potential market for or value of the copyrighted work.[34]
In the United Kingdom and many other Commonwealth countries, a similar notion of fair dealing was established by the courts or through legislation. The concept is sometimes not well defined; however in Canada, private copying for personal use has been expressly permitted by statute since 1999. In Alberta (Education) v. Canadian Copyright Licensing Agency (Access Copyright), 2012 SCC 37, the Supreme Court of Canada concluded that limited copying for educational purposes could also be justified under the fair dealing exemption. In Australia, the fair dealing exceptions under the Copyright Act 1968 (Cth) are a limited set of circumstances under which copyrighted material can be legally copied or adapted without the copyright holder's consent. Fair dealing uses are research and study; review and critique; news reportage and the giving of professional advice (i.e. legal advice). Under current Australian law it is still a breach of copyright to copy, reproduce or adapt copyright material for personal or private use without permission from the copyright owner. Other technical exemptions from infringement may also apply, such as the temporary reproduction of a work in machine readable form for a computer.
In the United States the AHRA (Audio Home Recording Act Codified in Section 10, 1992) prohibits action against consumers making noncommercial recordings of music, in return for royalties on both media and devices plus mandatory copy-control mechanisms on recorders.
Section 1008. Prohibition on certain infringement actions
No action may be brought under this title alleging infringement of copyright based on the manufacture, importation, or distribution of a digital audio recording device, a digital audio recording medium, an analog recording device, or an analog recording medium, or based on the noncommercial use by a consumer of such a device or medium for making digital musical recordings or analog musical recordings.
Later acts amended US Copyright law so that for certain purposes making 10 copies or more is construed to be commercial, but there is no general rule permitting such copying. Indeed making one complete copy of a work, or in many cases using a portion of it, for commercial purposes will not be considered fair use. The Digital Millennium Copyright Act prohibits the manufacture, importation, or distribution of devices whose intended use, or only significant commercial use, is to bypass an access or copy control put in place by a copyright owner.[18] An appellate court has held that fair use is not a defense to engaging in such distribution."
Sorry, legal jargon is always long winded
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Or we cover them in brail
"It is legal in several countries including the United Kingdom and the United States to produce alternative versions (for example, in large print or braille) of a copyrighted work to provide improved access to a work for blind and visually impaired persons without permission from the copyright holder.[35][36]"
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Or we cover them in brail
"It is legal in several countries including the United Kingdom and the United States to produce alternative versions (for example, in large print or braille) of a copyrighted work to provide improved access to a work for blind and visually impaired persons without permission from the copyright holder.[35][36]"
So the figures will have Braille printing or large print printing on their torsos?
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ah, rasputin, that is the spirit.
wildness and wisdom - the true qualities needed in a pirate.
the braille idea was marvelous.
if you look at my first figure you will see his chest filled with tiny dots.
braille doesn´t mean it has to say something meaningful.
just a bunch of dots.
p.s. another seafaing possibility - pedro álvares cabral.
he discovered brazil in 1500.
he was the 1st. human being in this planet to set foot on all continents - europe, africa, america, asia.
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la "piéce de resistance".
vasco da gama, the first european to go to india by sea, crossing the atlantic and the indian oceans.
again, powerful iconic images.
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I could also use a terra cotta army. ;D
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others seem to have done it - 2-d.
we would just be doing it 3-d.
is there a world of difference in this virtual world that surrounds us? :hmm:
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So those are fake... that's too bad I love those :)
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Very nice series, I want many of those and in duplicates
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Not that disgusting figure again :(
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I'd agree to a generic portuguese explorer with an assortment of hats (the magistrate hat, the old clown cone (not in pink!) ... or something new like the hat of Henry the Navigator) preferably in new colours. :)
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Hey!
Just discovered that thread.
Nah, nobody wants ANOTHER pirate, or navigator. People want a Greek hoplite!
Now, let's be honest and realistic, who's going to order 100 figures at $1,8 each "just for fun"? I could use 1000 hoplites for a diorama, once or twice, but I would definitely need to sell off at least half of them to fund my expenses.
On the other hand, a company able to produce a brand new part given the proper design, that's interesting. ;D
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:) ah, the 1st quarrel...
my idea was not to sell any of the figures but to just keep them for ourselves.
and maybe show geobra and its designers we too know how to do things.
could it be possible to gather 1000 playmofans to do this?
even 50 - 4 euros/dollars each is not a considerable effort?
i believe it is.
the problem will be, as always, to gather the same "will". ;)
can we begin by agreeing that this attempt, if taken to the end, should concentrate in producing a figure? (instead of an animal or a building or some other extra) ::)
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I think if we could agree on a 'simple' and generic yet useful navigator made from 'existing' parts in the first run. As proposed made 'exclusively' for a group of a few people willing to spend 5-10 Euros. To establish the process and to see how it will turn out. Later more elaborate figures could be ordered (maybe one/month ;D).
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I think if we could agree on a 'simple' and generic yet useful navigator made from 'existing' parts in the first run. As proposed made 'exclusively' for a group of a few people willing to spend 5-10 Euros. To establish the process and to see how it will turn out. Later more elaborate figures could be ordered (maybe one/month ;D).
But what is the point in trying to make bootleg existing parts?
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The minimum quantity is only 100 figures... so that's like $200... and that is if only one person wants any.... if say 5 people put up $40 each they'd each get 20 figures.... or 10 people at $20 for 10 figures.... wouldn't need to buy 1000.
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Make it a generic man-at-arms and I could use 100 easily.
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Make it a generic man-at-arms and I could use 100 easily.
If not the same we get from playmobil... and depending on quality... yes.
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Make it a generic man-at-arms and I could use 100 easily.
I have been wanting to do this for years and now it is becoming quite economically feasible. Chinas quality in the past also was quite low.
What would we be ordering ? A complete klicky with no accessories? Could we order just parts of klickies? The heads are easy to get, the internal skeleton is easy to get, there are so many legs out there, arms are in most colors, and hair is very diverse now. Can we order just custom torsos with special prints?
Or are we able to design a truly unique klicky, special legs, arms etc......
How complicated of a design can we design?
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One difference
Play big is for profit
For fun is not for profit
I can make an iPhone all day long, I just can not sell it.
But you won't be making these figures. You'll be ordering them from a company that makes them for profit.
It sets a bad precedent to show Playmobil that collectors are willing to buy bootlegged figures from China.
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It sets a bad precedent to show Playmobil that collectors are willing to buy bootlegged figures from China.
Yeah, there's that.
Though.... if they don't want our money, someone else does. But you are right - it IS different from buying klicky parts from ebay sellers.... very very different.
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But what is the point in trying to make bootleg existing parts?
Just a cheap and simple test. A combination of rather rare parts (like the merchants hat). Maybe color variants (the clown hat in blue or black). It could be ordered fast (I think we would have to provide 3D-models of new parts). It would still be 'our' ali baba figure.
Btw what about a 1001 nights theme later? ;D
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Just a cheap and simple test.
Wouldn't a cheap and simple test of non existing parts be better? Or am I missing something? (I admit I dind't read any conditions, TOS, and what not :-[ )
Though different colors would be enough for some parts, I suppose.
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But you won't be making these figures. You'll be ordering them from a company that makes them for profit.
It sets a bad precedent to show Playmobil that collectors are willing to buy bootlegged figures from China.
And geobra would have to legally peruse them for copyright issues.
It lets geobra know we are willing to go elsewhere if they keep with their controll issues. Geobra was more than willing to do the same to us, going to china. Nothing personal just business.
We ask, beg, plea geobra to make certain things. The bell tower for example. Geobra made the tower and stupidly left out the part that makes the whole set, a bell and support. Now if we showed them, "ok you made on overpriced tower with out the part we wanted so here is the part in large quantities " as a company they would have to take notice and perhaps that would help persuade them not to make the same mistake next time, we have options and choices. I would want Chinese bell parts over nothing. Who knows, maybe we all could have a mississippi boat and roller coaster in the future. Maybe we could create our own designs? It opens the door to many possibilities
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I said I could use 1000 hoplites, not that I really need them.
I agree with Tahra: what's the point in making bootlegs of existing parts? I see this as an opportunity to have my 3D designs mass produced!
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I see this as an opportunity to have my 3D designs mass produced!
Now you're talking!!
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Thanks Rasputin for the copyright clarification. I don't think anyone who buys from this company is likely to get prosecuted, but I can't see Geobra just ignoring the fact they are marketing products under the name Playmobil. It is a shame Geobra don't really understand what collectors want - perhaps because they don't really listen- hence the missing bell, omitted suit of armour (from the reissued museum) and frequently missing klickies from "reissued" sets.
I do have a problem with ordering from this company, because of their theft of Geobra's intellectual property for commercial reasons. It is different from a collector making their own parts because they are no longer available, or making unique parts (I have immense respect for the 3D creations of Cowabounga and others). So I probably won't join this collective. It would be great if Geobra read the signals and listened to collectors, but I think it is über optimistic that this will do it.
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making a new figure copying a mix of existing parts can be fun - it would just have to be incredibly beautiful and wonderful and original and etc. ;D
it would have to be something that made geobra designers cry form envy. :P
the ali-baba idea could be great, i think - not far from a pirate. :)
i am not that familiar with the story. ???
was there something distinctive on him?
a simple (or more complex) pirate is something lego seems to do very good. >:(
doing something like this wouldn't be enough, i think. :hmm:
but maybe i am wrong.
i will take some time to think about this (i feel kind of responsible for this thread). 8}
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... just as long as we can avoid being beheaded, there is nothing to worry. ;)
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Making cowabungas parts could be fun but how many would I need? Its fine for builders but we are keen on buying the way geobra kind of does it. A general and add on sets of 3 troops. A wholly built solider or a neutral peasant to fill in dioramas similar to the family sets geobra sells. We could use a few dozen but no huge orders in the hundreds. Any klicky we get if he is broken down now we have all these parts piling up. Fill in parts are usually acquired from having to rebuild used lots we buy.
A specific character....if the colors and designs we reusable then we could use dozens. The milk lady looks peasant-ish so we ordered many. A very specific design is less usefull. No peg legs or eyepatches ever...
As far as parts....being able to buy 20 brown zoo stair cases with banister, bell support, or less expensive steck 1/2 wall frame work parts (7400) is some thing I would be interested in.
As far as a whole set....designing, ordering, getting 10 ferraris, zeppelin, airplane, tank, or any other design for personal use, I'm in
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How about a normal sailor instead of a captain... I have many captains but few able bodied crewmen :lol:
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I read the page a second time. My understanding is now that they don't have moulds for pm parts ready. The picture (probably genuine pm) is not a show case but just a claim of what they are able and would be willing to do. They offer to design and tool moulds according to 'drawings' the prospective customer sends in. I am in doubt if they could produce really usable moulds (think alone of inner skeletons and movable wrists) for pm parts. Maybe single piece statues with unmovable limbs like those action figures on the other picture. At least not for 200$ and for production runs of 100 pieces. :-[
So I guess this might only be viable for cowabunga and 3d designed addons. Or maybe special body parts 3d-designed by 'us'. :-D
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if a crew is to be considered, a lack of sailors is indeed something that we should correct in the playmobil family.
all the latest sets came with redcoat soldiers/marines instead of sailors and naval officers.
nelson wouldn't have lasted so much with army instead of navy crews.
we would all be speaking french right now.
i would consider a 2 variation - winter/summer. :)
https://www.easterncostume.com/content/royal-navy-british-1800-1840
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Basic looking sailing crew for us would be just as usefull as peasants for the medival theme. These are areas that geobra just seems to ignore. We have many dozens of ships and they all lack crew members. Plenty of skull and crossbone, peg legged eyeless pirates to last us till the great grand children are senile but actuall working class sailers are far and few.
The crew would need to be easy to mix them up as we would not want every crew to look exactly like every other crew in the fleets. We would also want variation to distinguish different countries fleets. In general sailing crew members for us are lacking.
Prints would not be needed as this just type-casts the klicky.
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Could this company make parts from the 7400? I doubt there is a copyright and even if there was they do have an expiration date. I would suggest stecks castle walls and such but those are relatively inexpensive on auction. The 7400 rarely shows up on auction in the US. It has the same complicated mold as a 4 way.
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The 7400 rarely shows up on auction in the US. It has the same complicated mold as a 4 way.
Ok, then I am voting for a Steck house like this one...
:P
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Ok, then I am voting for a Steck house like this one...
:P
:o hello, let me wipe the drool from my chin now........
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Ok, then I am voting for a Steck house like this one...
:P
I'm game. :love:
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i am a system-x man myself... :P
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If the quality is even to Playmobil´s plastic (which is becoming quite likely when keeping China´s fast and continuous technological advances in mind), it might indeed be a source to have custom-designed parts made in the right material and in reasonably large quantities.
Concerning the (illegal) purchasing and shipping of replications of parts originally designed by Geobra; let me know how many other collectors you´re sharing the toilet with in your small cell.
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:hmm: what makes you so sure our cell will have a toilet hadoque?
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:hmm: what makes you so sure our cell will have a toilet hadoque?
It could of course also be a bucket, or a hole in the floor. Depends on where one gets arrested.
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It could of course also be a bucket, or a hole in the floor. Depends on where one gets arrested.
What kind of sea man are you? Reproducing a part that geobra made does not necessarily break any laws. Stecks have been out for over 20 years, system x is close to that as well. Copy rights do not last forever, just ask Lego. The klicky or the mini fig fall under a different legal protection and indeed is a legal issue. If one makes a part just don't call it "playmobil", call it playno.
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Ah, Lego was different, they tried to protect a generic item, i.e. a block with eight studs on it.
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So, generic action figure house pieces that just happen to interlock with stock and/or system x? :lol:
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What kind of sea man are you?
Well, actually "François de Hadoque" (created by Hergé, for Tintin´s adventures in the "Secret of the Unicorn" & "Rackham´s Treasure") on which my nick & avatar are inspired, is a captain in service of the French Navy in the era of "Roi Soleil" Louis XIV and he fights against... piracy. ;D
Reproducing a part that geobra made does not necessarily break any laws.
Reproducing parts yourself and keeping them for personal use probably doesn´t break laws. But once you start selling them (and I believe also if you distribute them for free), it becomes illegal. I assume Geobra files patents for what they design, they would be idiots if not doing so.
I have no idea though about how long copyrights last for a specific Playmobil-part, as you said it might end after several decades have past. The classic Playmobil figure however is protected as an "artpiece" and it´s copyright extends for several more decades. And I guess Geobra is already anticipating even that won´t be extended or last forever (so they come up with swimsuit-figures & co).
A completely different product but with relevance regarding illegal copying;
Some years ago, Russia sold several modern "SU-27" fighterjets to China, and China got permission to license-produce most of those locally.
But then the Chinese started to study the design & engineering proces of the jet, and they began producing hundreds of their own (slightly altered) version as the "J-11". This chinese J-11 - which sofar hasn´t been exported and is only used domestically by the Chinese Airforce (PLAAF) - is regarded by everyone (except the Chinese themselves) as an illegal copy from the Russian Su-27.
Since then China also hacked several major US aerospace companies and defence-contracters, and got enough sensitive data to start developping and producing f.e. advanced stealth-fighters on their own (J-20 & J-31, with several features resembling the latest US F-22 & F-35 stealth-jets).
So if they are or would be interested, it would be an easy job for them to also hack Geobra (which probably spends much less on counter-cyber then f.e. Lockheed Martin or the Pentagon) and steal design & production data, allowing them to reproduce Playmobil in a qualitative manner.
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:hmm: we don't know what le chevalier françois de hadoque did after the loss of the licorne and after he tried to live as a country gentleman at moulinsart.
:) if he was a little bit like le capitaine, that phase of his life would have been rather short.
::) maybe the only way to go back to sea could have been as a pirate.
;) it seems that he didn't lack the qualities to be one.
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;) a way out of this (as i see it):
- whatever we ask the chinese factory to do will never be put into the market before it reaches each one of us (whatever happens next depends on whatever each one of us decides to do);
- the main objective of this venture is purely scientific (like japan's whale hunting);
- it will be called (what a great idea) a playNobil;
- what to ask the factory to do needs a very long and tedious period of discussion;
- when we finally agree on something, everybody will be so bored by this subject that it will be seen as no big deal (please just do whatever you want and stop talking about it, please). :)
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o.k. the scientific way-out made me remember an old idea i had for the welcome figure of pcc. ::)
if you are like me, you love to see things disassembled or to know how things are made in their interior. :)
i've been like this since i was a child. :-[
so, what i propose is the building of a blue/transparent playnobil figure. :!:
i will leave you with some images that i love of how-its-made-see-through-plan-drawings playmobil figures just to get your attention. ;)
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:) as you see, there's a lot of people that went this way - http://www.playmofriends.com/forum/index.php?topic=1983.0.
;) come on, who's in favour of making a blue transparent klicky?
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;) come on, who's in favour of making a blue transparent klicky?[/font]
I WOULD LOVE that klicky! :love:
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Wasn't there the transparent robot in the Fi?ures ?
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Wasn't there the transparent robot in the Fi?ures ?
Yep.
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this little thing?
http://www.klickypedia.com/sets/5243v10-robot-transparente/
it's a small step.
i am talking about a giant leap.
total transparency, slightky blue.
lije the candlestick
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They already did ghost pirates. Total transparency would be the next logical step.
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The community asked for a transparent klicky as a pcc yearly gift, it did not happen yet. We got a tattooed pirate and Marko so far.
Won't hurt to keep asking.
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come on, who's in favour of making a blue transparent klicky?[/font]
That could be an interesting fantasy ice warrior or cursed wizard. :)
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The community asked for a transparent klicky as a pcc yearly gift
what community, when, how...
anyway, my view of this is a pure "technical" klicky, far from any theme or interpretetion.
something an adult collector can have on his desk.
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:hmm: we don't know what le chevalier françois de hadoque did after the loss of the licorne and after he tried to live as a country gentleman at moulinsart.
;)
copyright: Hergé/Moulinsart
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:love: merci mon chevalier.
i didn,t know all of them had 18th century counterparts...
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it seems that, for those who need larger figures, brazil might be the place.
http://produto.mercadolivre.com.br/MLB-673688296-playmobil-bombeiro-replica-gigante-20-cm-_JM
Playmobil fireman giant replica - toy art,
It's not a toy. it's a collectable decorative piece made with resin.
The figure doesn't have moving arms, legs or head.
- height 20 cm
- the buyer is responsible for the shipping cost
HOW THEY ARE DONE:
3d modelling
all pieces are digitally modelled using a 3d program.
searching for the right shapes and the hability to model in 3d are fundamental for the precision of every element.
3d printing
We give shape to the digital files using 3d printing.
resin production
We make a silicone mould for each shape generated by the 3d printing.
Some shapes are made out of 4 parts.
Te one in this image is a simple 2-split shape.
treated and painted piece
The white handbag is the 3D print.
The brown one is the painted resin replica.
The black one is the original playmobil handbag.
These are the giant replicas standing side by side with the original playmobil figures.
Medium height 20 cm.
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Those are fantastic
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http://www.aliexpress.com/price/playmobil-figures_price.html
see anything you like?
:) what about the transparent legs figure.
;D can you see now what i am talking about - a tech-see-through klicky, special-serious-collectors-who-like-to-see-how-it's-made set.